Amazons International # 68 ************************** Contents: TODAY'S QUOTES Lady Bold Wolf: Jousting & armour Jazz Fan: Why Amazons and not Barbarians? Jo: Re: My view from up here & Female Superiority Daniel Thomas: Amazon Identity vs. Opposition Cat Farrar: Babe Didrickson anecdote Prairie Donnie: Amazons and Heras in SF & Fantasy Amy Love: Free issues of REAL SPORTS magazine Jessica Wicks: Bio Svein Olav Nyberg: Amazon web ring? Date of publication: 23.10.1998 ********************************************************************** TODAY'S QUOTES "My general argument in this paper is that, contrary to the popular view of it as merely a simpleminded pursuit for large, oddly shaped, animated pieces of meat, bodybuilding is a scientific and technological practice. The bodybuilder not only conceives of her body as a site to be disciplined through various chemical and mechanical technologies, but as a collection of discrete parts distinguished from the whole, which can be individually manipulated. Thus I suggest that the bodybuilder is a cyborg." -- Krista Scott-Dixon, Cyborgs in the Gym: The Technopolitics of Female Muscle http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/scott/cyborgs.htm "When I hear women expressing a fear of weight lifting, what I am really hearing is a fear of being powerful. The social ideal tells women to be hungry, manageable, childlike, not demanding space. Given that our bodies are tied to our selves and spirits with tangled inextricable threads, it stands to reason that to manipulate the body is to manipulate the mind. Women who lift find that their newfound strength not only improves body confidence, but more importantly, confidence in all situations. Moreover, a strong woman learns to inhabit her body in a more positive way -- it is no longer her failure but instead her ongoing success." -- Krista Scott-Dixon, Some philosophical thoughts on strong women... http://krista.tico.com/thoughts.html ********************************************************************** [Note from Editor: I forward some inspiring news/update from Cynthia Morrison, aka Lady Bold Wolf. You can see pictures from described events and items at: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/cynthia/] Date: August & september 1998 From: OneHeavy@aol.com Subject: Update on jousting, armour & stuff The only thing new since last is the fact that I have started to perform escape artist events. Mainly straight jacket and chain and shackle escapes for now. I Love the old Houdini stuff! I hope to someday hang suspended by my ankles from a cable attached to a crane. Hopefully 8 stories high. The only opportunity I have had so far is being suspended from a car repair lift. Only brought me about 1-2 feet off the ground. Too easy for me. I want some space!!! I love it!!! September 10-13 I jousted at the biggest jousting tournament of the year. That's the International Jousting tournament, in Colorado, and we were two women participating. We have other women that take part in the spear throwing, ring spearing and quintain hitting but she and I were the first and only true JOUSTING competitors. Also, Let me tell you about my armour! My breast plate is Black Leather. I had metal plates added to it for extra strength. I chose the leather because it allows more movement in case of unhorsing. I know disabled Knights in the US that can no longer joust due to major injury from wearing full metal plate armour. Actually they are lucky to be walking! What people do not realize is, although there is more protection with heavy metal against a blow of the lance, the full metal shell allows no movement so a jouster must fall like a stone dropped. If you can understand what I mean? Maybe not. I guess it's one of those things you have to experience. I know I have. Anyway, I found some "Door Knockers" (small) of lions heads. The lions have rings going through the mouth. I bought two of them and attached them to the breast plate in the area where us Amazons have a bit more flesh to offer. One on each side! Cool looking! I like the jingle sound they make when I gallop on the horse. ("I hear you knock'in, but you can't come in!" -- Fats Domino). Lady Bold Wolf ********************************************************************** Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:24:53 -0400 From: Jazz Fan Subject: Why Amazons and not Barbarians? Why Amazons and not Barbarians? Those who admire Amazons are sometimes asked to explain the distinction between what they admire, and the qualities held by men. If one admires muscles on women, why not just muscles in general, and by extension then, muscles on men as well? If one admires women who are tall, and one asserts that height is an enviable quality in women, then why is it not equally desirable on males? Why isn't the Amazon admiring male attracted to males with the same qualities? The quick and easy answer for any heterosexual male is that they simply prefer women to men, and therefore prefer these attributes on women rather than on men. True as this may be, this answer seems a bit too easy. It's almost a kind of cop-out, allowing the Amazon admirer to extricate himself from a sticky situation.<1> This sense that I have seems to be akin to that which fosters the belief in some, that Amazon admirers are latent homosexuals, who are simply too cowardly to face their own true sexual preferences, and therefore resort to admiring "masculine" qualities in women as a poor substitute. Poppycock! So is there another answer? I think so. Let's consider some of the oft admired Amazon qualities; big muscles, strength, courage, toughness, height, bravado... I'm sure there are others. These qualities all seem to be those generally attributed to desirable males. It can be argued that though they may have been "generally attributed to males" traditionally, that fact does not mean that males OWN these qualities. That is, these qualities are HUMAN ones rather than the property of one sex or the other. That's the definitive argument for females seeking a claim on those qualities, but does little to explain the Amazon admirer's attraction to them in women as opposed to in men. Here's my answer to the question. One of the things that's wrong with the world is that there are too many men acting out their most primal instincts. Too many men anxious to fight. Too many men anxious to win and triumph over other men. Too many intent on coming out on top in every situation. Too much violence against the helpless... too much insensitivity towards suffering. Seeing a man howl in victory after pummeling his opponent senseless is a disturbing sight. Watching him show off his muscles seems obvious and vulgar. He has thrown off the civility of society and has returned to his "natural" primitive state. He has turned 180 degrees from his evolutionary journey. I for one, find nothing remotely admirable about that, as it seems less like an accomplishment and more like a submission to some compelling primordial drive. He has ceased to be a human in control, and has surrendered himself to his baser instincts.<2> A woman, however able she is to become as primitive, is not AS inclined toward that state as is the average man. I hope the reader will concede this point. I don't have the studies handy, but I believe that it is generally accepted that men have a more violent drive than women, and the differences, while certainly attributable in some part to environment, are just as much based in biology. Either way... men are more inclined towards violence and bravado than women. This means that when a female beats her opponent down, and struts in victory, and then flexes her muscles, she is WILLING herself into a state of primitiveness to draw power from that hitherto untapped source, rather than SURRENDERING herself to it. She has added something to her femininity, rather than subtracted something from her humanity.<3> A woman's display of muscle... her act of bravado... her victory... represents a choice rather than a compulsion. In her we can see an expansion of will and potential while in the man, we see a reversion to some very dangerous tendencies which have historically proven disastrous. The Amazon remains human while adding self confidence, power and ferocity needed for survival.<4> It is for these reasons (in addition of course, to the sexual preference normally cited, which I think is the bedrock argument) that I think Amazons are exciting, uplifting and desirable (sexually, societally, and evolutionarily), while I'm inclined to look upon her male counterpart, the Barbarian, with some revulsion and a good deal of suspicion. The qualities of an Amazon are positive and attractive, while the identical qualities in the Barbarian have a negative connotation, at least for me.<5> Notes: <1> Why is stealing wrong? God says so!... that may be, but perhaps there are other reasons why it's wrong that will satisfy atheists who ask the question. <2> IMO... It's guilt by association when dealing with appearances rather than actions. A muscular male who may be a perfectly decent human being, will be no more attractive (to me). The association of his muscles with the negative tendencies discussed above will still have it's effect. While I fully expect and applaud females for seeing the worth of that man (and then enjoying his body without the negative associations), I suppose that as a heterosexual male, I just don't have the incentive to make that effort. <3> I am quite sure that some men must "will" themselves into a more primal state, while some women find it easy to "revert" to that state. The comments regarding each sex are generalizations... individuals will always provide exceptions to any generalization. <4> There may have been a time over the last 6000 years, when a Barbarian man was essential, though I doubt it. Even if so, his time is past, and the world would be a much better place, IMO, with civilized men standing side by side with fully realized women who are unhindered by self-repression and inhibition. <5> I am as uncomfortable thinking of a woman who finds barbarian males attractive as I am in thinking of men who need weak submissive females. However, if the reader falls into either of these categories, rest assured that I won't make myself a pain in the arse about it. We'll both lust after whomever we will. Jazz Fan Visit the land of AMAZONIA MINOR at... http://mail.dandy.net/~bunburry/amazonia.html ********************************************************************** Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:44:55 EDT From: Jo Burke Subject: Re: AI # 67: My view from up here & Female Superiority In AI # 67, Shannon Morgan wrote: > A friend recently forwarded several volumes of comments about > Amazons, tall women, strong women, warrior goddesses. I'm inspired > to write....I am 6'3", strong, heavy, and gorgeous. I am a single > mother of three, work full time, do my own home repairs, and fix my > own car. I also have a penchant for red lipstick and garters. I > find the idea that tall women be categorized or pigeon-holed into a > particular label based on physical attributes short-sighted...I sing > in a band, I carried twins, I cry at sappy movies. I lived in > Brazil (associated with Amazons if only for the river) and have > larger hands than any woman I've ever met. Am I an Amazon? If so, > what do I win??? Respectfully submitted, It seems, from your description, that you're a strong and very independent person. That's always good because you may not always have someone with you. In some people's eyes, you're just a tall, independent woman. In others, you're an Amazon. In my opinion, you're only an Amazon if YOU think you are, not what others tell you they think you are. And it's not a contest where you would win something, it's more like saying, "This is who I am. Respect that." In AI # 67, Jazz Fan wrote, Re: Female Superiority: > What I do want to explore in a light-hearted fashion, is her > assertion that "males can be reduced to squirming jelly fish by a > show of a breast". > > So often, in our focus on Amazons, we<*> overlook what I consider > to be a rather potent form of power; that wielded by women of > beauty. We overlook it because it is the 'old' power of women, > and not the 'new' Amazonian kind. The power of a woman of great > beauty is a political embarrassment to those of us who wish to > further the notion of the power of the Amazon. It is a throwback > to a time when women were perceived as weak, and a reliance upon > what could be termed as 'feminine wiles' was their only recourse. And that's what I think is wrong with the world today. People who are beautiful know it, and sometimes use it to their advantage, and that isn't right. Power doesn't come from beauty, although it may seem so these days. It comes, or should come, from having a strong mind or strong body or both. Despite the differences of females and males, I do believe that we are equal on this earth. Why else would we have such beautiful, strong women who could drop a man the same size and ability as herself? Jo ********************************************************************** Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:55:39 PDT From: Daniel Thomas Subject: Amazon Nature, and Identity vs. Opposition Hello Everyone. I've been absent for a while, but I finally have something to say. The first is that Amazon is a state of being, as well as a physical description. Wonder Woman would not have the titles of "Amazing Amazon" or "Avenging Amazon" if her will was weak. Her will, her faith, her determination, make her as Amazon as her body does. The second is a complaint that I have against the world in general. Many, many individuals refuse to admit their Amazon nature, and even get wild-eyed and afraid at the notion of Feminism. Its like the episode of Xena: Warrior Princess, after Xena's death, when the Amazons wanted to give her an Amazon Burial. The Queen said that even though Xena never admitted it, she was a true Amazon. In the setting of the show, Amazons were an ethnic group. In our world, it is a description of a person, someone who has to think or act a certain way. To be an Amazon is a conscious choice, like being a Christian, Feminist, Environmentalist, Wiccan, Cat-lover, etc. A friend of mine e-mailed me, asking if I considered her to be an Amazon. I told her that yes, she is one, because she is intelligent, athletic, and strong willed. I told her that because she doesn't see her gender as dictating a set role in life for her, and pursues what she wants, she definitely is an Amazon. Her reply was that she couldn't be an Amazon because she wasn't a feminist, and that if Amazons were feminists then God destroyed them (my friend comes from an extremely fundamentalist Christian sect). I told her that she was just denying her Amazon Nature (and humiliating it) by pretending NOT to be a feminist. By way of example, I explained that if I were a homosexual, I could claim I was not a homosexual as much as I wanted; I could even pretend to be sexually attracted to women, but that would not make me a heterosexual. It would make me a person who is ashamed of a strong part of myself, and a part that gives me strength. Women who deny their Amazon Nature deny their own strength. Does anyone have any ideas as to how people can learn to be proud of attributes, even in the face of strong religious opposition? Daniel Thomas http://members.tripod.com/~FirestarArtemis/index.html "...But I do not enjoy the killing...I AM NOT VIOLENT!! And I will put an arrow through the brains of anyone who says I am!!!" -- Artemis (Artemis Requiem #4-DC) ********************************************************************** Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:28:53 -0700 From: Cat Farrar Subject: Babe Didrickson quote from Whole Earth magazine Babe Didrickson set Olympic and world records in javelin, hurdles, and high jump, before becoming a champion golfer. After hearing that Babe played basketball, football, baseball, and many other sports besides running track, a reporter asked her, "Is there anything at all you don't play?" "Yeah," said Babe without missing a beat, "dolls.". Cat Farrar "All things have their backs to the female and stand facing the male." -- Lau-tzu, Tao Te Ching ********************************************************************** Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 02:21:43 -0400 From: Prairie/Donnie Subject: Amazons and Heras in SF & Fantasy Literature I just found the AI web site with a request searching for characters relating to Amazons or heras. I also noticed the large amount of received recommendations, in AI # 58 mentioning Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter of Elizabeth Moon's trilogy, "The Deed of Paksenarrion". Personally, I have read, re-read, and read again every book in the trilogy and I sorrow that there are not more of them. Paksenarrion is an excellent character for your research, that being if it isn't over already or you have not looked into these books already. I'd recommend these books to any reader interested in Fantasy or strong female characters. Donnie McSwain ********************************************************************** [Note from Editor: I signed up for this, and I forward their offer.] Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:24:31 -0700 From: Amy D Love Reply-To: mail Subject: Free issues of the new REAL SPORTS magazine Thank you very much for signing up for three free issues of REAL SPORTS magazine. The magazine will be debuting in December of this year. As you are awaiting our launch, may we please encourage you to tell your friends, family and colleagues about our new magazine and would you encourage them to sign up for three free issues as well at www.loves-real-sports.com. This type of grass roots support is critical as we show the advertising community that there is in fact a market out there that seeks the Real Representation of Today's Girls and Women Athletes. Best regards, Amy Love's REAL SPORTS magazine ********************************************************************** Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:37:48 EDT From: JessicaW33@aol.com Subject: Bio Hello: My name is Jessica W. I live in Houston with my wife Crystal and are looking forward to our first posting of AI. I am five foot nine and have always been a strong woman. We are members of an Amazon tribe, the House of Janetdottir, and practice Amazon principles in our day to day life. I look forward to hearing from others who share our belief, and hopefully will find others from our House. There are three of us that I know of here now. And many others who live their lives by our principles. I am presently employed with the state, due to retire in two years. I'm also writing and am about halfway through a novel. It is a fantasy, but with a decidely feminist perspective. Look for it in a bookstore near you :-) Jessica Wicks ********************************************************************** Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:11:04 +0100 From: Svein Olav G. Nyberg Subject: Amazon web ring? There are many great web pages to be seen these days. I keep track of quite a few at my Strong Women web site (http://www.uio.no/~solan/strongwomen/). Some of these sites also link back to me. Yet, it doesn't provide the dynamism that the web is capable of offering. There's a new concept that has rapidly become popular -- web rings. I personally find that a great idea, and link to a few worthy web rings at my site. Yet -- the "perfect" web ring is missing -- THE AMAZON WEB RING. Does anyone on this list know of any such ring? I could have set it up myself if my future internet connection wasn't rather unsure. Anyone a taker for this idea if no such ring already exists? Svein Olav Nyberg http://www.uio.no/~solan/ [Note from Editor: I'm way to busy to take this on -- I need to concentrate on keeping AI somewhat regular, and keeping the links on the Amazon Connection up to date (and, the Connection will soon be reorganized). Also, personally I'm not so hot on the ring concept -- I prefer lists and indexes, where I can get an overview of everything at once. When I find a web ring that interests me, I go to the "list all" page and go through that systematically. I do agree though that an Amazon web ring would be a great idea for those who prefer that format -- a format well suited for a leisurely "walk-about" type of exploring or surfing, and I believe many people like this format, especially young people with time on their hands. But being one who doesn't prefer the ring format, and being overworked, I'll just have to pass this cup on to somebody else.] ***************************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@math.uio.no * * Administravia/Listserver: amazons-request@ifi.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazons.html * * * * The Amazon Connection -- Links to Amazon web sites: * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html * ***************************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries