Amazons International # 62 ************************** Contents: Words From Editor Today's Quotes Artemis: Re: Amazon confusion Thomas: Re: Amazon confusion Severin: Re: Amazon confusion Thomas: Tributes to Gabriela Sabatini John: Wrestling Fun on the web Date of publication: 03.04.98 ********************************************************************* From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Words From Editor With this issue, I'm starting something which I hope will become a regular feature in AI: a quotation column. Some people spend quite a bit of time complaining about the state of affairs of the culture, and to be sure, there certainly are enough to complain about. But I'm not looking to create a "horror file" or a group therapy session of whining and tooth gnashing. What I seek, and will provide in the Quotation column, are positive, inspiring quotations; statements that are eloquent, powerful, and uplifting. If you come across something that you think qualifies, do send it to me, with a full citation of the source (who, where, when), and I'll credit you (if you want) for finding the quotation. I'm also happy to inform AI subscribers that The Valkyries have established a web presence. They are at: http://www.worldlynx.net/thevalkyries/ Who or what are The Valkyries? See the Quotation column below, and then look up their web site. TODAY'S QUOTES WHO ARE THE VALKYRIES? Beyond Norse legends, Wagnerian epics and artistic fantasy is a vision which centuries of civilization have methodically suppressed. She's the physically-advanced woman, representing an absolute which society, ever male-dominated, cannot accept. Some say that her image, also called Amazon, has been continually resurrected throughout history by man for the sole purpose of being defeated by him. THE VALKYRIES are all women who dare to approach this physical absolute, rejecting the notion that femininity is compromised by muscularity and might. In their best moments, they show with dazzling clarity, what every woman should be seeking to become, and every man should be...seeking. -- The Valkyries, http://www.worldlynx.net/thevalkyries/ Anyone fighting for the future, is living in it today. -- Ayn Rand The first time I saw the Wonder Woman, she was laughing. True, she was fighting lions, but she was laughing. The audience loved it. The audience be damned. _I_ loved it. The king and his courtiers were also enjoying it heartily. Even crown prince Hotspur allowed himself a smile. I wonder if that was when he first fell in love with her? I know I did. -- William Messner-Loebs (1997): Wonder Woman Amazonia: A Tale of the Wonder Woman. Pp. 2-3. DC Comics, New York. ********************************************************************* Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 15:55:47 EST5EDT From: Artemis Subject: Re: Amazon confusion Contrary to Max Earnest's claim in AI # 61: No, Amazon did not originate as a description of tall women. It comes from Greek "a mazos", which means "one breasted." The Greek Amazons were Warriors, not just big women. And I think that if someone's got an arrow aimed at your brain, you're going to describe them as pushy. Max further claims: > And "Not afraid to break free from traditional ideas about gender > roles and femininity"? This describes, for starters, every > lesbian and bisexual woman on Earth, and you can probably throw in > all prostitutes too. Again, very few qualify as Amazons. Prostitutes do fit in with the traditional view of the female gender role. Paraphrasing Mary Wollstonecraft: "I am called a feminist because I express opinions other than those of a prostitute or a doormat." The Amazons, being matriarchal, do not fit this definition because if their leaders were doormats, then we'd have never heard anything about them in the first place. > Here's a hypothetical: take a big, strong heavily muscled woman, > say 6'2", 215. A woman built along the lines of a Nicole Bass(*), > for example. Say she's married to a shrimp of a guy, and, for > whatever deep-seated psychological reasons, she's very submissive > around this guy, he treats her like a slave and she puts up with > it. Does this mean she's not an Amazon? No, it means she's not a > Hera; but all Amazons are supposed to be Heras. How about she's a > Valkyrie? No Max. Take the mythological Amazons, like Queen Hippolyta. When Herakles came to claim her belt, she wasn't a passive person. She resisted him, as did the other Amazons. Therefore, any woman who submits to domination without good reason cannot be an Amazon. An Amazon must possess both pride an intelligence, whereas a Valkyrie was simply supposed to serve Odin as king of the gods. The Slave girl you described is a valkyrie, but she can't be an Amazon as long as she is in that situation. I agree with Pam Forder in AI # 61 that a fighting spirit is a requirement for a woman to hold the title of Amazon, but we must consider the definition of fighting. The Women's suffragettes did not descend upon their enemies armed with swords, guns or axes. They fought by refusing to wear their corsets and using words, the accepted style of combat in political arenas. I consider them Amazons. History is full of such women, and I think they have earned the title. Like Queen Elizabeth I. No one gave England trouble while SHE was running the show, and I doubt very much that she ever fought a duel or rode into battle brandishing a sword. I have a general question about one of your terms. "Hera" is used to describe female warriors, but I don't think that it is a proper expression. Hera was the powerful queen of the Greek gods, but she is typically the opponent of the hero, such as Herakles, who inevitably wins. The only mortal hero she supported was Jason. I might be wrong, but I've never read any myth in which Hera assumes the mantle of a warrior. Artemis and Athene both personify this spirit, but Hera does not. The gods, however, rarely involved themselves directly with the battles of the heroes, choosing instead to help one side or the other. If a deity must be used, I think Athene or Artemis would be better choices, but a mortal would be the best. Atalanta, Hippolyta and Antiope were mortal warrior women, and I think they personify that spirit better than the gods. Daniel Thomas "...But I do not enjoy the killing...I AM NOT VIOLENT!! And I will put an arrow through the brains of anyone who says I am!!!" -- Artemis (Artemis Requiem #4, DC Comics) PS: I've just received wonderful news that a brand new Wonder Woman Television Series will be airing on NBC this fall and I'm elated. Just wanted to share that. ********************************************************************* From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Re: Amazon confusion Both Pam Forder (AI # 61) and Artemis/Daniel Thomas (above) refer to the Greek term "a mazos", meaning breastless, and the Greek myth that Amazons were a warrior people that cut their one breast off in order to aim and shoot better with a bow. However, I'm highly skeptical about this particular myth. First, while it is true that "a mazos" means breastless in ancient Greek, the term Amazon is apparently even older, and is associated with pagan Moon worshipers, the Moon being a central goddess in several old cultures. Second, a woman of these times whose breast was cut off, would simply die of blood loss or infection, no matter how strong and Amazonian she was. The knowledge of medicine and anatomy was simply not good enough to save someone with so serious a wound. Third, what evidence is there that a woman without a breast shoots better or longer with a bow than a woman with a breast? None, I think. Are today's top female archers particularly small-breasted? Do they undergo hormone treatments or other methods to make their breasts smaller, in order to improve their performance? So, there was no motive for Amazons to remove a breast, and plenty not to. Therefore, I suggest that this particular Greek myth is a fantasy derived from an accidental homonymy between a Greek word and an older original non-Greek word. The Amazons existed (IMO), and they were goddess worshipers and warriors, but there is no reason to believe that they removed a breast, that is just a Greek demonization of them, to make them appear even more alien and threatening. As to the word "hera" as a synonym for "female hero", I cannot claim to have invented that and so cannot tell for sure the inventor's intentions, but I started capitalizing the word, just like I prefer to capitalize Amazon. Daniel correctly points out that there is a goddess by the name of Hera, and that the word, at least when capitalized, can be confused with this goddess. Since I'm the cause of that confusion, I'll stop capitalizing "hera". I did not derive it from the goddess Hera, neither did I intend to imply a connection with this goddess, and nor, I presume, did the inventor of the term. There is a feminist convention or tradition to take masculine words that end with an -o and create corresponding feminine words ending with an -a. For example, Theo (god) becomes Thea (goddess); thus theology: the study of god(s) --> thealogy: the study of goddesses. Another example: anarcha-feminism (feminist anarchism) replacing anarcho- (masculine anarchist prefix). So "hera" is just an example of this tradition, and it is shorter and more convenient than "female hero". Oh, and finally, I'm sure there will be plenty protestations against your equating valkyries with servants and slave girls... ********************************************************************* Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 06:11:12 -0800 From: Severin Subject: Re: Amazon Confusion Greetings All, I tend to agree with Cat Farrar in AI # 61. In my opinion, there are many shades of Amazon. The enormous, powerful, confident (nearly) impossible to live-up-to historical or fantasy image. There are feminists who are and aren't Amazons. There are sex-trade workers who are and aren't feminists. There are big and small Amazons. There are so many classifications and it is damnably empty to even attempt to pigeon-hole a mind set or a body type. There is no harm in this because it stimulates discussion. I think it is a very interesting perception to attempt to view modern Amazons with a historical perspective. To me, this makes no sense whatsoever. As the cliche goes, hindsight (history) is 20-20 and unless you were there, it is very difficult to truly understand. I don't believe that anyone can place a mythical yoke around what they believe to be the Amazon ideal. It is simply a matter of setting oneself up for disappointment. Work within the parameters you know and can experience, that is .. today. One of my favourite people in the world is a friend who is, by far, the smartest person I know, she works for a great social cause, she is a marvelous poet with a dark soul, she is a feminist and she has an incredible depth of spirit. Is she an Amazon? :) Just my $0.02 Cheers, Jamie Editor's note: Jamie Gairns has been a regular contributor to AI and his bio is in AI # 12. ********************************************************************* From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Gabriela Sabatini During my time as editor of AI, I have been constantly amazed at the breadth and diversity of perspectives on Amazons. There are also, however, some fascinating "constants" that appear again and again. One such constant is Gabriela Sabatini, the great former tennis star. Consider for example, this quote from Barry Gross in AI # 54: > My realization that my attraction to Amazons was a part of me was > at 32 years at work. We were looking at People Magazine's "most > beautiful people" and we were all deciding which woman we would > pick if we had a choice. All the guys picked the typical model > type "bimbos" and when I looked there was Gabriella Sabatini and I > instantly picked her. When everyone sarcastically asked why, she > has big shoulders, muscular arms and she stands there like she's a > "tough guy" I said "yeah, isn't she outrageous". Everyone looked > at me funny but I was glowing with the fantasy of being alone with > her in the locker room after a match, and how sexy she would look > all sweated up and my job was to please her. At this time I had > already had a strong urge for spiritual exploration and this made > me decide to find out and understand why I feel the way I do. Recently I came across another startling reference to Gabriela Sabatini, in Nadine Crenshaw's 1997 book "Xena X-posed: The Unauthorized Biography of Lucy Lawless and Her On-Screen Character" (Prima Publishing, New York). Lucy Lawless describes Sabatini as a great inspiration for Xena, "because Gabriela Sabatini looks just the way a warrior princess ought to look". One can only wonder how many women and men have found inspiration and concretization in Gabriela Sabatini during her long tennis career, as one of the few penetrating and lasting cultural icons of female heroism, and what processes and spin off effects she has inspired. I did a web search to see if there were any tributes to her, and there certainly were. A couple of the better sites are: http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~yangzw/gaby.html http://www.uni-passau.de/~vormoor/sabatini/sabatini.html http://chris.simplenet.com/gabrielasabatini.html A picture gallery: http://epsom.jsp.umontreal.ca/~delormbe/photo.html There was an official Gabriela Sabatini magazine, and they have a web site: http://www.satlink.net/sabatini/ There is even a web ring dedicated to her: http://www.bomis.com/rings/sabatini/ ********************************************************************* Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:11:24 +0100 From: John Subject: Re: Wrestling Fun available on the World Wide Web This is just to say that Wrestling Fun is now available on the World Wide Web, at: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7161. As with all Geocities web sites, there is no charge to view and no commercial information there. Therefore some of the reviews and advertisements from the printed edition have been deleted. However there are some extra articles that have been sent in by web readers. It first appeared early February 1998, and by March 1998 there have been well over 5000 visits. It has been described more than once as the most sensible publication for people who are interested in erotic wrestling. The articles include historic material on UK f/f wrestling from the 1950s and 1960s, a contacts list, comprehensive advice on how to find a companion from a college lecturer in related subjects, annecdotes, letters and opinions from people interested in erotic wrestling and more. All is now free if you have web access, otherwise the printed edition is still available. Sincerely, **************************************************** * Publisher of Wrestling Fun * John * contacts and articles for m/f wrestling fans * * http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7161 * **************************************************** "Find someone who will willingly do it, don't just talk about it." ***************************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@math.uio.no * * Administravia/Listserver: amazons-request@ifi.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazons.html * * * * The Amazon Connection -- Links to Amazon web sites: * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html * ***************************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries