Amazons International # 58 ************************** Contents: AMAZONS & HERAS: A Compilation of Recommended Fantasy & Science Fiction Books Date of publication: 30.10.97 ************************************************************** From: Editor Subject: Amazons and Heras in SF & Fantasy Literature Some time ago I posted this request for references and recommendations in the rec.arts.sf.written, rec.arts.books and alt.books usenet newsgroups: > If you were to list the 5 best SF/Fantasy books (or 10 if you have > difficulties deciding :-) about a strong female protagonist or > amazon (a female hero, not a heroine, if you get the difference), > which books would it be? Why? > > I'd like to compile a list of such books, as a basis for research > and inspiration. I'll credit anyone who participates in the > compilation (by name or pseudonym as you wish). The response was excellent and almost overwhelming, and this issue of Amazons International is the result of compiling and editing the responses. While this issue of AI represents a frozen moment in time, I will also maintain a dynamic file that will be continually expanded and updated with more and more references. You can find this file here: http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/hera-books.html I welcome additions to this file at any time. I'd like to thank the following people for contributions to the compilation in this issue of Amazons International: Leon Aldrich, aRJay, Matt Austern, Scott Colvin Beeler, Black Planet, Rachel Brown, Randy Byers, Rose Cyrus, Steve Denham, William George Ferguson, Thomas Lee Finley, Francis ("Fido"), Sharon Goetz, Cynthia Gonsalves, Melissa Hardie, Frank C. Hess, Stacey Hill, Phil Hunt, Liz Irwin, Barbara K., Tomer Katz, Rob Kerr, Janet M. Lafler, Dave Lampe, Nancy Lebovitz, Barbara Ling, Ethan A Merritt, John Moreno, Ted Nolan, Janice K. Patton, Mike Progbear, John Rice, Graydon Saunders, Mister Skin, Alicia Smith, Lori Snowdog, Ramesh Srinivasan, Anne Marie Talbott, Bill Taylor, Andrea (Ankh) Teale, Richard Treitel, Keith Turner, Jo Walton, Fiona Webster, Bill Woods, Robert A. Woodward. Some people just mailed titles, while others wrote more or less extensively about their recommendations, so the available info about different books may vary. While I generally prefer gender neutral terminology, I recently encountered the term hera for female hero, and I think this term may have merit in contexts where the sex/gender of the agent is important. Let us start with a helpful identification of the goal of this compilation: From: frgsn@primenet.com (William George Ferguson) The original post didn't just ask for 'amazon women', but seemed to be trying to differentiate between 'heroines' and 'female heroes'. To illustrate the difference as I see it, compare and contrast 'Podkayne of Mars' by Robert A. Heinlein and 'The Universe Against Her' (et.seq.) by James H. Schmitz. I would categorize Poddy as a heroine and would (and did) categorize Telzey as a female hero. Note that both are caring, both are supposedly intelligent (both are supposedly geniuses, actually), and both demonstrate reasonable competence. A mojor difference, in my mind, is that Poddy reacts to her universe and Telzey acts upon her universe. From: fi@oceanstar.com (Fiona Webster) Subject: Re: 5 best female hero/amazon books? I'm not very knowledgeable about sf/fantasy, but I enjoy the female heroes of Barbara Hambly's novels, especially her novel called _The Ladies of Mandrigyn_, which includes a segment in which housewives in a fantastic middle-ages setting are trained in the arts of war, and then go to battle, led by their strong Joan-D'Arc-esque leader. Not great literature, of course, but well-written enough to be thrilling even to me (not a fan of fantasy). From: frgsn@primenet.com (William George Ferguson) These female heroes have all appeared in series. I'm picking the character rather than a specific book. SF: Telzey Amberdon -- James Schmitz (hard to imagine a stronger female protagonist) Aleytis -- Jo Clayton (novels of the Diadem) Beka Metadi-Rosselin -- Debra Doyle & James D. MacDonald (Mage Wars) Fantasy: Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter -- Elizabeth Moon Tarma & Kethry -- Mercedes Lackey (Vows of Honor) Anita Blake -- Laurell K. Hamilton If I had to pick one, it would probably be Paks (sorry Telzey, it's an awfully close call). From: merritt@u.washington.edu (Ethan A Merritt) I will answer as if you had asked "what are the 5-10 best SF/fantasy books that happen to have a strong female...", i.e. the emphasis is on a good book that happens to meet your criterion rather than the books which have the strongest hero(/ine)s. If you asked me tomorrow I might have a different list, but as of this moment here's what comes to mind. Space Ships, etc: _Cyteen_ and _Serpent's Reach_ C.J. Cherryh _Dreamsnake_ Vonda McIntyre _Agent of Vega_ or most anything by James Schmitz _Diamond Age_ Neal Stephenson _Grass_ Sherri Tepper Sword & Sorcery: _The Black Flame_ Lynn Abbey _The Innkeeper's Song_ Peter Beagle _Drinker of Souls_ Jo Clayton _The Blue Sword_, _Hero and the Crown_ Robin McKinley From: nancyl@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) Milena, in Ryman's _The Child Garden_. From: Keith Turner I would add the first two of Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorsakian saga, Shards of Honor and Barrayar, starring Cordelia Naismith. From: Cynthia Gonsalves My problem is that both of my top nominees are in series of books, and if you add up the books in the two series, I get darn close to your 10 book limit . So here I go: 1) David Weber's Honor Harrington for a space opera hero 2) Aeron Aoibhell in the first 3 Keltiad books by Patricia Kennealy-Morrison for fantasy Peace, Cynthia Gonsalves -- Total pleasure is a good book, a comfortable couch, and a cat curled up beside you. From: rice@ttd.teradyne.com (John Rice) I'm 'winging this' because I can't get home to my library to get the details exact. Beka Metadi-Rosselin -- Debra Doyle & James D. MacDonald (Mage Wars) Herris Serrano -- Elizabeth Moon's series (I'm drawing a blank sorry) Honor Harrington -- David Webbers Series starting with "On Basilisk Station' Cordelia Naismith (Miles' mother) -- Lois McMaster Bujolds "Cordelias Honor" (compilation) and others. From: Mister Skin I don't have five books offhand, but I just read a very good fantasy novel called the Harem of Al Akbar by Elizabeth Scarborough that featured three resourceful heroines, two of whom were distinctively Amazon-like. The title makes it sound like it might have lots of sex (uh, guess why I bought it) but it's actually a ripping yarn in the tradition of the Arabian Nights, with some nice, tongue in cheek humor to it. Highly recommended. From: Leon Aldrich Having read thru the posts, couldn't believe they left out Feist/Wurts Elizabeth Moon: Sheepfarmer's Daughter Divided Allegiance Oath of Gold Raymond Feist : Servant of the Empire Janny Wurts Daughter of the Empire Mistress of the Empire From: fchess@usa.net (Frank) For SF, I'd have to nominate John Varley's _Titan_ (and its sequels _Wizard_ and _Demon_), featuring Scirocco Jones. From: "Janice K. Patton" Just a suggestion: You might want to check the Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy, & Utopia site at http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/femsf/ They might not have *exactly* what you want, but it's probably worth a look if you're doing research. From: ted@ags.ga.erg.sri.com (Ted Nolan) These books have been out of print for years, but I would nominate Tiana Highrider of Reme, heroine of three wonderful books by Andrew J. Offut and Richard Lyon. Unfortunately, the only title I can recall right now is _The Eyes of Sarsis_, but one of them had a sexy "winged Tiana in a bikini" Rowena cover that actually had something to do with the story. There is an overall plot of trouble with a wizard that drives the books, and Tiana stays in constant motion, charging on with a zest that is all too rare now days.. From: Rob Kerr I don't know if anyone's mentioned them yet, but I've just finished Elizabeth Moon's "Deed of Paksenarrion" Series, comprising three books: Sheepfarmer's Daughter Divided Allegiance (I think) Oath of Gold Forgive me if I sound vague after just finishing them, but it was a collected edition. There's also some of Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books. The ones I can remember are: By the Sword (Kerowyn's Tale) The Magewinds Trilogy, comprising Winds of Fury, Winds of Change, Winds of Fate (not necessarily in that order) Many of the DragonLance and Forgrotten Realms books have female leads. -- Rob Kerr "That's right," he said. "We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am." -- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods) From: barbk@aol.com (Barbara) Can't believe I didn't think of this immediately: The Female Man, by Joanna Russ. Or, if you're looking for short stories, When It Changed. Both feature residents of her Earth-parallel world Whileaway, populated by strong Amazon-types. From: treitel@wco.com (Beth and Richard Treitel) Well, I have enough trouble coming up with one or two. Let's start with _The Demon Breed_ by Schmitz. The hero wins by being alert, intelligent, and knowledgeable about the planet she's on, rather than by being a professional soldier of any variety. The society is shown as mostly male-dominated, but there is no use of sex appeal nor any whining about "oppression" of women -- the job just gets done. Moon's _Once a Hero_ and her Paksenarrion trilogy (_Sheepfarmer's Daughter_, _Divided Allegiance_, _Oath of Gold_) also have female protagonists who are worthy of some respect. They don't start out as Amazons, or at least, they have some learning to do before they become heroes, but I strongly recommend the trilogy. - Richard ------ A sufficiently incompetent ScF author is indistinguishable from magic. see also: What is (and isn't) ScF? ==> http://www.wco.com/~treitel/sf.html From: dave@nowhere.com (Dave Lampe) In article <5n84tk$8ig@news1.infoave.net>, ted@ags.ga.erg.sri.com (Ted Nolan) writes: > These books have been out of print for years, but I would nominate > Tiana Highrider of Reme, heroine of three wonderful books by > Andrew J. Offut and Richard Lyon. Unfortunately, the only title I > can recall right now is _The Eyes of Sarsis_, but one of them had > a sexy "winged Tiana in a bikini" Rowena cover that actually had > something to do with the story. > > There is an overall plot of trouble with a wizard that drives the > books, and Tiana stays in constant motion, charging on with a zest > that is all too rare now days.. The other two books were "The Demon in the Mirror" and "Web of the Spider". They came out between 1978 and 1981 so they will be a little hard to find now, but they are worth searching for. -- Dave Lampe Dave.Lampe@ov.com <- use this address, not the header From: progbear@aol.com (Progbear) Shame, shame, shame on everyone here for not mentioning Tanith Lee's "The Birthgrave". Quite simply the best read I've had in a long time, and the best I've read by Lee so far (considering it's her first full-length novel, it's also quite an accomplishment.) MIKE From: R. Byers Also Russ' stories about Alyx, who is a little bit more in the heroic mold. Featured in the novel _Picnic on Paradise_ and a handful of stories that were collected as _The Adventures of Alyx_. There's also Derveet in Gwyneth Jones' _Divine Endurance_ and _Flowerdust_, and Alldera and the Riding Women from Charnas' _Motherlines_ and _The Furies_. And the protagonist from Elizabeth Lynn's _The Northern Girl_ -- can't remember her name off the top of my head. From: Ankh Fantasy: Elizabeth Moon -- The Deed of Paksennarion (series of books combined). Louise Cooper -- Indigo Series. (Starts with "Nemesis") SF: David Weber -- Honor Harrington series (starts with "On Basilisk Station"); Lois McMaster Bujold -- Cordelia Naismith books; Wilhemina Baird -- "Crashcourse" and various sequels. As for the why: 1. These are all books where I wanted to buy another book about the same person. 2. Where the female lead was not generally described as 'feisty' or 'gutsy' or 'spunky', which in my experience tends to be a word for 'female bravery', a hamstrung type of 'cute' bravery which has sexual overtones. 3. They're good stories. Andrea -- From: rosecyrus@aol.com (Rosecyrus) But what about C. L. Moore's Jirel of Joiry? Absolutely a great. Rose From: Matt Austern _The Female Man_, perhaps, by Joanna Russ? It's a well known feminist science fiction book, and I do recommend it, but I wouldn't precisely call it a "strong-women" or a "hero/amazon" book. It's more complicated than that. From: janet@netcom.com (Janet M. Lafler) Agreed, but as someone else has pointed out, Russ has written some canonical "hero/amazon" stories, collected in _The Adventures of Alyx_. /Janet janet@netcom.com From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) Anita Blake -- Laurell K. Hamilton Honor Harrington -- Weber Cordellia Naismith -- Bujold Herris Serrano -- Moon -- John Moreno From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (Phil Hunt) I'm surprised no-one's mentioned _Drakon_ (S. M. Stirling) yet. Or _Against a Dark Background_ (Iain Banks). From: Mister Skin For a hard sf with a tough woman protagonist, try C. J. Cherryh's "Downbelow Station." The starship captain (IIRC, her name is Mazian) is tough in the sense of having the capacity to do what's necessary, and to get others to do what's necessary, to survive. I'm sure there are others out there, too. From: robertaw@halcyon.com (Robert A. Woodward) Mallory (Mazian was the senior Captain of what was left of the Company Fleet). From: graydon@gooroos.com (Graydon Saunders) _Downbelow Station_ does indeed prominently figure a female starship captain; her name is Signy Malory. (Conrad Mazian, the crazed charismatic fleet CO, is someone else entirely.) You could also read _Cyteen_; Ariane Emory qualifies as a tough woman protagonist. graydon@gooroos.com Praise ice when it is crossed, Ale when it is drunk, The day at evening-time. From: snowdog@whidbey.com (Lori) I think one of the best I've read is the Paksenarrion series by Elizabeth Moon. Another good one is in the generation warriors series Herris Serrano. I can't seem remember the author though, although its on the tip of my tongue. From: Jo@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) "Captain Signy Mallory has no soul they say The Captain of the Norway has a heart of frozen clay And on the deck of the Norway she throws men's lives like dice -- Captain Signy Mallory, her eyes are fire and ice..." (Filk from "Finity's End") Signy Mallory who, on being asked why she shot a member of her crew replied "Norway has her standards." I have a friend who shows all the signs of being in love with her. -- Jo -- I kissed a kif at Kefk -- Jo@kenjo.demon.co.uk xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Blood of Kings Poems at http://www.kenjo.demon.co.uk/ 1 of Browning's, 1 of EBB's, 9 of Graydon's, 17 of mine ...and a cheerful song about the end of the world From: Mister Skin > I'm surprised no-one's mentioned _Drakon_ (S. M. Stirling) yet. The request was for a female hero. The protagonist of Drakon was a bloodthirsty, murdering scumbag out to enslave the Earth. Not usually activities associated with heroism. From: rachebrown@aol.com (RACHEBROWN) I wouldn't call the women in them Amazons, but Robin McKinley has a terrific pair of books featuring sword-wielding young women: "The Blue Sword" and "The Hero and the Crown." I would particularly recommend them to any teenage girl who feels like she doesn't fit in, along with the rest of McKinley's work. Rachel From: Bill Woods Fiona Oceanstar wrote: > As for *why* people like to read about female heroes... I think > there are nearly as many reasons for that as there are individual > readers -- including desire for a protectress, need for a role > model, pleasure in identifying with a strong woman, sexual > attraction to brawny women in skimpy outfits, etc., etc. Which brings _Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson_ to mind. -- Bill Woods From: scbeeler@unity.ncsu.edu (Scott Colvin Beeler) Sharrow in Iain Banks' _Against a Dark Background_ I Don't Remember Her Name in Sean Stewart's _Passion Play_ Jalian in Daniel Keys Moran's _Armageddon Blues_ All these characters are tough, take-charge, effective, but aren't just mindless war machines. The authors develop each of their personalities very well so that we understand them and what they are doing. From: jsabel@voyager.co.nz (Lily Lady) I have been following this thread and as far as I can see, no one has mentioned MZB's Darkover Amazon books with Magda Thorne and Jaelle Ardais and Camilla. All very strong female hero characters and all Free Amazons. Stacey Hill "Does a radioactive cat have 18 half lives?" jsabel@voyager.co.nz From: goetz@iname.com (Sharon Goetz) Magda Lorne, rather. I correct it mostly because I'm used to thinking of her as "Lorne" from the books. They're strong female characters, and I enjoyed reading their stories, but I think the books they inhabit aren't nearly as strong, by and large.... (MZB = Marion Zimmer Bradley, for anyone who doesn't know and is interested) --sharon From: btl@saturn.superlink.net (Barbara Ling) Beyond any shadow of a doubt, it would be 'The Light Bearer' by Donna Gillespie. That book spoke so much to me that I created the official site for it (http://www.lingstar.com/tlb/). It's a historical fiction novel about a woman warrior who must stand against the might of Rome. While she can unite the tribes into a single body, she herself must deal with her humanity verses the tribe's insistent reverence of her. Abolutely an incredible novel. I highly recommend it. It's now going into its second printing. <> A data point, -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% The Linguistic Tongue %% C Code. C Code Run. Run, Code, RUN! %% %% http://www.lingstar.com %% PLEASE!!!! %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From: ben_ezra@netvision.net.il (ben_ezra) Well I'll nominate Jame (Jametiel Prist Bane) from the P.C.Hodgell books. Tomer Katz (t_catz@netvision.net.il) From: melissa.hardie@english.su.edu.au (Melissa Hardie) Anyway, some of you might also be interested in the Amazon/Goddess sites on the web as well as, or even rather than these novels. I have personally very little interest in fantasy fiction (well, none to be honest), but these websites, full of descriptions of goddesses accidently grinding ant-like men underneath their heels are kind of interesting. Yahoo should get you there -- Land of the Giantesses is one that springs to mind. -- Melissa --------- New address: melissa.hardie@english.usyd.edu.au From: blakplanet@aol.com (BlakPlanet) What about Alyx in Joanna Russ's Adventures of Alyx, or Anyanwu in Octavia Butler's Wild Seed? Black Planet Radical Books By Mail 2 W. Read St #140 Baltimore MD 21201 410.662-0878 http://www.blackplanetdirect.com/ From: Jo@kenjo.demon.co.uk (Jo Walton) Roz in _The Robber Bride_, Zenia in tRB -- except that she's the villain, she was actually the one I was thinking of. Moira in _The Handmaid's Tale_ but we're definitely into secondary characters there. Atwood does write strong women though, generally, women prevailing -- the central character of _Cat's Eye_ is nothing like an amazon but she's definitely affirming. From: atalbott@edge.net Here's my list... Character: Author: Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter Elizabeth Moon Sera Ofelia **** Elizabeth Moon Shkai'ra Mek Kermak's-Kin S.M. Stirling/S. Meier Yolande Ingolfsson/Gwendolyn Ingolfsson S.M. Stirling Magda Lorne Marion Z. Bradley Yeah, I know, I know, I cheated and stuck two on one line. As ruthless as they may be, and by George, those two Ingolfssons ARE, they are still strong women characters; heroes in their own stories. The **** indicates an anomaly: an older woman as hero in a science fiction story. If you haven't read Remnant Population, run, don't walk to the nearest bookstore and please buy a copy. It's quite interesting, and a refreshing change from the "young and incredibly vivacious" science fiction woman. Magda Lorne was a fairly cool character, too: Terran on Darkover. Thendara House was a fun read. I always think it is interesting to think about throwing a dinner party for various characters. I am not sure I'd want all of these gals sitting down at my dinner table at once, and I am not too sure Shkai'ra would be tame enough to deal with modern dining methods, but it would be fun. The interactions would be fantastic to observe! From: jazz@qnet.com (Bill Taylor) the best single example in current release I can think of is "Chicks in Chainmail" from Baen, I don't recall the author. Its actually a compilation of short stories and with the exeception of one, I liked them all. All the women are intelligent, generally the Amazon type, and in control most of the time. From: Tom Finley My vote for best female hero book is the "Deeds of Paksenarrion" by Elizabeth Moon It is the combine trilogy by the same name. From: leece@perv.metapro.com.au (Alicia Smith) I'd be suprised if no one has mentioned the Telzey Amberdon books by James H. Schmitz. Universe Against Her being one... From: Liz Irwin It has been a while since I read them, but I think I remember C.J. Cherryh's Morgaine series full of heroic women, particularly Morgaine herself. If I remember properly, Morgaine was a character caught up in the needs of her quest. A flawed woman fighting to balance her life as a warrior and her emotions. Like most of Cherryh's novels this series is complex and has a lot of depth. If you like good writing I suggest you try a few of hers. From: DrD I'm late for the show. Maureen Smith in _To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ is an easy winner for me. Steve Denham From: Editor That's what we've got so far. Here are some more titles from my own book shelves: Loren J. MacGregor: The Net David Brin: Glory Season Barbara Walker: Amazon Mary Mackey: The Last Warrior Queen Pat Murphy: The Falling Woman Pat Murphy: Nadya Pam Sargent (Ed.) (1995): Women of Wonder, the Contemporary Years: Science Fiction by Women from the 1970s to the 1990s. Harvest; Harcourt Brace & Company, San Diego, Ca. Pam Sargent (Ed.): Women of Wonder, the Classic Years: Science Fiction by Women from the 1940s to the 1970s. Harvest; Harcourt Brace & Company, San Diego, Ca. Anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley Anything by Jessica Amanda Salmonson Marion Zimmer Bradley (Ed.): Sword & Sorceress 1-11. (11 short story anthologies) Esther Friesner (Ed.): Chicks in Chainmail (short stories) Starhawk: The Fifth Sacred Thing Ellen Frye: Amazon Story Bones (Spinsters Ink, Minneapolis, MN) If you can read Norwegian: Ingar Knudtsen's Amazon trilogy: "Våpensøstrene" (Sisters in Arms (literal translation: The Weapon Sisters)), "Rød Måne" (Red Moon) and "Løvinnens sjel" (Soul of the Lioness). (Ingar Knudtsen is a Norwegian Fantasy & SF author and independent scholar with an extensive background in and knowledge about Amazon feminism. Most of his books feature strong, heroic women in prominent roles. There is a web page, in Norwegian, dedicated to him at http://home.sol.no/~oteige/IngarKnudtsen.html -- you can see the covers of his books and his picture there. We'll get back to Ingar in future issues.) ***************************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@math.uio.no * * Administravia/Listserver: amazons-request@ifi.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazons.html * * * * The Amazon Connection -- Links to Amazon web sites: * * http://www.math.uio.no/~thomas/lists/amazon-links.html * ***************************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries