Amazons International # 46 ************************** Contents: Words from Editor Queenie: Bio & attitude Puppetoon: Reply to Osprey's challenge Maggie: New to AI and US Ian: Wrestling reference Shana: Bio, soapbox, and thanks to Mom Date of Transmission: 06.02.95 ************************************************************** Words from Editor So, it's been a long break... by far the longest so far... Sorry about that. I've been extremely busy (including week-ends, which is usually the time I do this); a few words about that: I'm juggling a couple of jobs, shifting between being an Internet consultant for small companies going online, teaching an Internet basic course for a distance education college, and free lance writing for various publications about Internet, Virtual Reality, the cyberculture etc. Actually I do some non-Internet stuff as well, including teaching science and math a couple of evenings a week, and occasionally working on something that will hopefully become a short story anthology one day (a mix of fantasy, horror and cyber-stories). But there is another reason I haven't been able to keep up with AI. The number of AI subscription requests is exploding, reflecting the growth rate of the Internet, with a current rate of 2-3 per hour, effectively. That's very nice, and something I never dreamed about when I started AI on a basis of some 8-10 people some 3 years ago. But it also means a lot of administration, since the current software requires handling subscriptions manually. It is an understatement to say that that I am behind on processing the subscription requests. It doesn't help that I also manage a couple of other smaller lists that in their own way are starting to reflect the growth of the Internet too. I'm pushing the local authorities to make them install listserver software that allows automatized subscribing and unsubscribing, such as Majordomo. Unfortunately they are skeptical, but I think they will come around and see that there is no way around it. Meanwhile I'll prioritize getting AI issues ready and sending them out, rather than being up to date on subscription processing. Until recently I've always brought the AI subscriber lists up to date with new subscribers before editing and sending out a new AI issue, but this clearly isn't the way any more. But I will get to the new subscribers eventually, with or without Majordomo (I estimate that we will be about 1400 people after processing the current backlog batch). Btw, I'll have to practice two necessities: (1) I won't answer mail that asks about when the next issue will be out (2) I won't answer mail asking questions answered in the FAQ (which is mailed to everybody) And now for the real stuff. Ed. ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 22:34:10 -0700 (PDT) From: queen of the amazons Subject: Bio & attitude Hi...I am introducing myself to Amazons International. I am a fiercely independent, 6' tall, wild woman who likes to get what she wants when she wants it. I have always been like this. I come from good Amazon stock..there is a long list of women in my family who also knew what they wanted and would not settle for less. This has presented problems at earlier points in my life, but as soon as I removed myself from the world of men, things became much easier. I could expand to my fullest without having to deal with all that negativity. I now live surrounded by other Amazons and we encourage each other to be as strong as we can be, to be as wild as we can be, and to take as many chances as we need to just to keep things interesting. Things are very interesting. I find that people are either very attracted to my Amazon energy, or they are completely put off by it. The reaction is usually very clear. I once became involved in removing an intoxicated man from a restaurant because he was harassing the waitress who was there alone. An Amazon friend and I approached him from behind, lifted him by the elbows and began to usher him out the door. As he turned his head to see what was happening he was saying.."hey what are you?" his eyes landed on an Amazon button i was wearing, and he finished his sentence with..."a bunch of AMAZONS???" I answered in the affirmative, laughing the entire time we were removing him from the premises. It was too perfect. SO I revel in my Amazon-ness. It is who I am. It is why my life tends to go the way I want it to. I cultivate it. I use it. I love it. I too feel that it doesn't have that much to do with size...after all we don't all want to degenerate into size queens do we? I know some small and fierce women who won't take any shit from anyone for anything. I'm looking forward to being involved in AI. I can remember some of those times before they rewrote history. I can remember when things were different, and Amazons rode the earth, I can remember when women were open to each other and our trust was at an all time high. I can also remember some of how that changed and we got to where we are today..which must be somewhere on the low end of the low scale. I look forward to sharing some of that with you in the future. Thanks. queenie@netcom.com ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 02:23:59 EDT From: Puppetoon1@aol.com Subject: Reply to Osprey's challenge in AI # 45 After reading this Amazonian young lady's fascinating article and challenge, I can't resist crafting a reply--and a return challenge. Obviously I can't speak for all male subscribers to this newsletter, only for myself; nor can I be sure that the attitudes I'll describe would survive an actual relationship that, save for a brief experience as a teenager (described in AI # 26), I've never had. I can only describe the way I think--and the way I'd hope I'd think if I were ever fortunate enough to find the kind of woman I desire. Since that encounter long ago--and, perhaps, even before--I've been strongly attracted to taller, physically very strong women who, while attractive and feminine in both appearance and demeanor (in my opinion, big muscles do NOT necessarily make a woman unfeminine in appearance), are not afraid to assert themselves and take the initiative, both sexually and in other ways, in an otherwise normal, loving relationship, a preference which is clearly not unique among the male subscribers to this newsletter. Like most such men, I've had my fantasies of being physically (and lovingly) overpowered by such a woman (and have relived the experiences with the young lady described in AI # 26 many times in my mind), but believe I have always been astute enough to know that a relationship based on physical or sexual preference alone cannot long survive. Moreover, I've never been a wimp; I played football (made honorable mention all-state as a 165 lb. guard my senior year in high school, which tells you how long ago that was!) and boxed in high school and briefly boxed semi-pro in college to help pay the bills, so the kind of women I preferred were few and far between. Hence, when I fell in love and married, it was to a woman who was a far cry from my physical ideal; nor I did try to change her, and we had a marvelous marriage (and several wonderful children) for over 20 years until her death several years ago. Nevertheless, we've long lived in a society dominated by stereotypes, and, although this is, I think, less true today, in the past deviations from the "norm" often produced ridicule and sometimes even rejection. The young lady alluded to above knew this, and, although she was significantly taller than I and looked almost as strong as she was, she was always the perfect example of traditional "femininity" in public. Had she been otherwise, I would have been mortified and humiliated--but, let's face it, I was a teenager in a small town... In the last few years I have briefly dated several women in my general age bracket (up to 15 years younger) who were both taller and bigger than I, but for various reasons the relationships were not right and either they or I broke them off, and they never progressed to the point of discovering whether they were the type of women I prefer; I like to think that, even if they had been, it would not have changed things. At the same time, I've not felt at all uncomfortable or self conscious with them--perhaps age and inactivity have softened that old, macho self-image along with the muscles of youth!-- nor, to my knowledge, did they with me. The real question is, would they have felt the same way had they known I was looking for a woman who is my physical superior, or if they had felt they WERE physically superior to me? I'll never know, but my guess is, probably not. Therein lies the challenge to Osprey: Yes, I feel strongly that today I could live with and love an Amazon-type woman as long as the relationship was a normal, loving one; she did not attempt to dominate the relationship either in public or in private, and we were compatible in other ways besides sexually. If her physical capabilities in any sport--or even all sports--exceeded my own (much easier to do today!) I think I would be proud, rather than embarrassed, to make that known. Now, Osprey, you might well argue that this attitude is purely a result of age and a recognition that it's no longer necessary to maintain the masculine stereotype image of my youth, and, in part, you'd probably be right. With some sense of shame, I'd have to admit that, had I been able to meet and court the woman of my dreams in my youth, I might well not have had the courage to marry her. But those were different times; today, I firmly believe (notwithstanding the complaints of that anonymous sportswoman in AI # 45), people generally are more tolerant of deviations from the "norm" that are not perverse (which a love of the Amazon-type of woman which does not involve B&D or S&M clearly is not), and that, were I young, I would feel no differently than I do. So, Osprey, suppose, as a young woman today, you were physically superior in every way to your current SO, could outrun him, beat him at arm wrestling every time and pin him almost at will? Assuming he could accept that, what, if anything, would that do to your relationship? Could you still respect and love him as a man? And would your relationship with him still be 50-50? Or, like most women I've known, would you have no interest in such a man? I'd be very interested in your HONEST answer... Puppetoon1@aol.com (formerly Puppetoon on the soon-to-be- defunct PC-Link) ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:21:34 -0600 From: mwe184@lulu.acns.nwu.edu (Margaret Werry) Subject: New to AI and US Hey fellow Amazons & Amazon lovers! Great to find you on the Net. I'm new to the US (originally from New Zealand) and eager to get networked into the Amazon scene. I wrestled for some time on the circuit in England and Europe and would *love* to find a club somewhere in the Chicagoland area, where I now live. Can anyone help? Being somewhat attached to magazines and other quaint remnants of a pre-Net society, I'd also like to get my hands on any literature to do with Amazons, videos of wrestling etc. Can't wait to flex my pecs and hit the mat once more! Yours in anticipation. Maggie. Kelly Lynn Lange klange@merle.acns.nwu.edu klange@casbah.acns.nwu.edu ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 17:58:43 +1000 (EST) From: Ian Adams Subject: Wrestling reference Hi Thomas, I have been catching up on all the back issues, wonderful stuff! I found a request from a fellow AI subscriber -- Sarah Larsson in AI # 42 wanted to know of any Female Wrestling videos; store suppliers, mail order outlets. I can help with one; GMV Productions PO BOX 10164 Gouger St Adelaide 5000 South Australia Email: gallasch@adelaide.dialix.oz.au Contact name is: Tina. International Fax: 61 8370 3938 They have a huge range of female fighting/bodybuilding productions. Produced both locally in Australia and on the international scene. All video formats are supported. Kind regards, Ian Adams. ************************************************************** Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 12:00:26 PDT From: soliver@esri.com (Shana Oliver) Subject: Bio, soapbox, and thanks to Mom I'll try to keep this short, but we Amazons seem to have a lot to say. My name is Shana (pronounced shah-na) and I have a lot to thank my mother for. I am 25, 5'10" and weigh about 160. I'm not in primo condition, but I'm in better shape than I used to be and working to improve that on a near-daily basis. My physical condition is not my claim to Amazon-ness -- my mental set is. As far as I can remember, I have never felt that I should camouflage my high intelligence or abilities. My mother taught me that I am just as important as any other person, and maybe moreso because I can use my abilities and intelligence to better the world in which we live. I have taken that message to heart and plan to spend the rest of my life in one of the most important professions: teaching high school kids. Teaching? What sort of wimpy job is that? Well, I get a certain charge from knowing that I am able to empower my students (male and female) and that being the boss in the classroom enables me to teach respect, order, and appreciation. I teach French, but that's not the main topic. The main topic is understanding what language means, and how language and culture affect our view of the world. Students in my class have the opportunity to examine other cultures and beliefs, and let them challenge their own. A favorite story: I keep a wide selection of French magazines in my class. One student stumbled across a woman in a lovely strapless evening gown, hands clasped behind her head -- with unshaven armpits. The students had a collective fit, and one male student said, "That's gross!" I challenged his belief: "Why?" His reply: "Well, it's dirty!" Barely containing my amusement, I returned: "Are you?" The entire class stopped dead in their tracks, taking a second look at the differences. I'd like to think that this extends to their view of the world. One law in my classroom: when they are presented with something from another culture that is different from here, they CANNOT say "That's weird" or "That's strange." They must say "That's different." I know that they may say it without thinking, but eventually, they will look at the differences and try to contain their immediate reaction of "Ick!" So, my professional life, I feel, fulfills me in my Amazon-ness. My personal life, you ask? Well, I am engaged to be married to my best friend of four years -- who truly cherishes my strengths, my opinions, and my Amazon-ness. He is not threatened by my height, nor does he try to limit my actions. We are of approximately equal intelligence, though possessed of differing political beliefs, and we share most tasks equally -- be it pruning, sweeping, or dishes. We support each other in bettering ourselves, physically, mentally, and emotionally. I also have his mom to thank, though not an Amazon, because she raised him to believe that he could do anything, and he deserved someone who had the desire to do whatever she was capable of, not just a shiny trophy. I don't feel that an Amazon is someone who *must* fight, but someone who, given the necessity, will fight instead of crumple. I don't have the dedication or patience to train in the martial arts, nor do I have the desire. To me, Amazon-ness is more about the freedom to make those choices. An Amazon can be passive, but only if she *chooses* to do so and is fully cognizant of the potential conflict between others who expect her to remain that way. An Amazon goes and gets what she wants. That entails figuring out what she wants. And if she refuses to be limited by her genitalia and by those with ill-used brains, she can be anything that she wants. It is about the power to make choices and control your life. So, one of the best things that you can do to further this movement: teach the children. Teach the girls that being brave is important, being pretty is less important, and that with hard work and perseverance they can be anything they want within their own personal limitations. Teach the boys that the world is more interesting when it is shared equally, and less interesting when they just have women following them around and clapping. And remember that they watch you. So if you cannot live up to it, your children will not either. Commit yourself! Whew! What a soapbox the Internet provides. Thanks for the chance to preach to the choir. Powerful, decisive women need to be cultivated! I'm glad to see so many of us here, and see the men that appreciate us! Thanks Mom! Shana L. Oliver ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries