Amazons International # 39 ************************** Contents: Jan: Bio, & gender issues Thomas: Policy on erotica Ahab: Women's boxing Fatica: Bio, & giantess worship Skier14: Source of "Amazon" Thomas: Re: Source of "Amazon" Garry: AOL means Amazons Online! Robin: Bio, & sexuality issues Date of Transmission: 04.04.94 ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 7:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Subject: Bio Rather than lurking smugly as some third party omniscient, I feel strongly that the technology encourages connectivity. So I offer this bio trusting that it may strike a few common cords amongst you (us). I'm 46, female, intent on making the most of what the universe has to offer despite the difficulties posed by my plumbing. When I say obstacles, I speak of (a) physical--strength deficits,PMS, etc., no need to be further graphic, and (b) perceived--as in gender-role stereotyping. I consider myself a renaissance woman, no, a renaissance person. My interests are eclectic: I've invested myself in carpentry, plumbing, gardening, bonsai, art (watercolors, acrylics, pen-and-ink), photography, extended canoeing/hiking solo or group, aquaria, dogs, computers, literature, astronomy, bodybuilding, et al. Capsulized, my beliefs are: (a) life is short; experience what I can, and (b) don't ever let anyone tell me I can't engage in some activity because I don't have the requisite plumbing. As a younger individual, I was somewhat (only somewhat) inclined to mollify society and friends by giving in a little here and there to social/gender conventions of dress/behaviour. This never seemed to fulfill its purpose because, although I am of average height and appearance, apparently something about me was quite androgynous. Service station attendants and sales clerks addressed me as "Sir" even though earrings might be dangling. I'm still frequently addressed that way, yet I am never offended by the phenomenon. Rather, perhaps it indicates that an individual communicates via body language and a host of other elements: if it's passive, then it has to be female; if it's active, undoubtedly male. I still wear earrings now and then because (a) I like the look and (b) most importantly, they pose no physical impediments. Fortunate I am to work in an establishment which has no formal dress code for I have eschewed the sweaty, ill-fitting nonsense of panty hose, skirts which limit my ability to take a step, and shoes which don't offer complete comfort and stability. It does not occur to me that this is masculinizing--not that it would matter. I have always marvelled at how society has managed to brainwash so many female fellow travellers into thinking they *enjoy being a girl* when they submit to the bondage of apparel. Issues of sexuality I meet with a shrug. I am comfortable in mine and accord others the enjoyment of theirs. I am uncomfortable with the practice of defining people on the basis of sexuality and feel puzzled at those who do. It makes as much sense to me as defining oneself in terms of the house they live in: "oh, I'm a bungalow dweller", or, "I'm a pink stucco model". However, I resist conventions and legislation which prevents individuals from achieving self- fulfillment and support that which lets us explore and expand ourselves without cruel and unusual punishment. I suppose that where I'm coming from and proceeding to is a mindset, a mental and physical sphere of operation largely devoid of gender specifications. I would interest myself and engage in any pursuit which strikes my fancy without society thence extrapolating meanings or applying value judgements. But, realistically, society is slow to change, and I can't waste a moment waiting for doors to be flung open. I open them myself, and it doesn't seem all that hard. If I want to build an immense deck to grace my house, I do it, even though the next door neighbour tells me pointedly that not even he would embark upon such a task. When my snowmobile breaks down or the water pump goes flood, I roll up my sleeves even though my next door neighbour coaxes me to let him fix them. And I have found that when the deck is completed, the snowmobile running, and the pump humming, all my neighbour does is laugh and shake his head. Active rather than passive. Doing is empowerment. ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Policy on erotica/sexually explicit stories I'd like to address the issue of erotica and sexually explicit stories. The current policy is: (1) I accept erotic material if (a) it is compatible with the philosophy of Amazons International. Essentially that means that women must be described as powerful actors and valuers, not as passive objects, prizes or the like. (b) the stuff is sensual rather than clinical (c) I think that it is well written (2) I always mark the beginning of an erotic text with something like: THE FOLLOWING TEXT CONTAINS SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL, PLEASE STOP READING HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE EXPOSED TO SUCH MATERIAL. (3) I place the erotic text at the end of the issue (or if possible, in a separate issue) in order to make it easy to avoid it. This sounds simple enough, however as we all know people disagree about where the different lines go all the time... One of my concerns is that whenever I get an erotic story, it seems to be written by a male. Is there some kind of gender issue here? Don't Amazons write or appreciate erotic material? Or are they busy doing, leaving the talking to their admirers? :-) I do think that sexuality, both as a practice and as a system of codes and interpretations, is one area of human experience that is screwed up real bad (pun intended) by the current gender role system and the current ways of constructing and imprinting gender. Hence erotic material coming from another base and describing other realities may be liberating and open up new areas of experience, and to the extent they succeed in that, they are invaluable additions to the furtherance and concretization of Amazon attitudes. And stories engage, in contrast to arguments, treatises etc., not only the mind but also the emotional life. I welcome your comments and opinions on this hot (pun still intended) topic. Either mail me at thomas@math.uio.no with your private opinion, or provide a mass--, uhm, message to the entire group at amazons@math.uio.no. - Thomas ************************************************************** Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 23:16:31 -0500 From: Ahab Subject: Some more on Chris Kreuz and womens' boxing Icehawk (AI # 20) mentioned an American female boxer who made a wrestling tour of Japan. I think this was probably Christine Kreuz Christopher, who fights as Chris Kreuz. Several boxing and wrestling magazines carry ads for her ring videos, and show pictures of her clutching a championship belt. She claims to be a lightweight champion, but I'm not sure what body awarded her its title. She has been on several TV talk shows recently trying to promote womens' boxing and her "Tough Enough" training and conditioning program. Her proteges will be showing their stuff in public soon as the Chicago Golden Gloves boxing tournament will let women compete for the first time. 20 female boxers will compete against each other in five weight classes, under the same general rules as the male tournament (plus mandatory breast protectors and a pregnancy test). The card should include 9 fighters from Kreuz's "Tough Enough" club. Two of these, Sandra Gutierrez and Nadine Wasserman, were recently featured on a TV news magazine oriented to womens' issues. Both said that they are trying to broaden the boundaries for women in sport, and are looking forward to real action outside their gym. They also commented that some of their friends and family thought they were crazy, but others saw them as pioneers of a new dimension in feminism. The same TV show revealed a range of male attitudes to women in the boxing ring! Jack Cowen, the Golden Gloves tournament director, said "why not let them fight?", and also that the presence of the women may "create new fight fans" (i.e. more dollars, media coverage?). A male boxer who will also be in the tournament was angry and said he "didn't want to see two women beating themselves up". Presumably he will not be forced to watch in case rough action offends his delicate sensibilities! Kreuz emphasized that women boxers don't want to be compared with men, or to compete with men, but they want to have their own organization and to fight under the same rules as men. This should be an interesting event. I wonder if and how the general media will cover it .... Ahab ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 01:11:30 -0400 From: at103@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kim Fatica) Subject: Bio, & giantess worship I was pretty amazed and excited to discover this group on the Internet! For years I have admired and loved Amazonian women -- women of extraordinary height, weight and strength. I was also surprised by the number of postings there were. I am a 32 year-old male of average height (5'9") and weight (185) who adores tall women. I have dated many women over six feet tall and have secretly admired women well over 6'6". I love these towering giantesses even more when they have large feet and like wearing heels or platform shoes because they love feeling powerful and are comfortable with their incredible stature. I would like to contribute a movie to your list that is a "must see": "The 30-Foot Bride of Candy Rock" It stars Bud Costello (of the famous comedy duo) and was shot in the 50's in b&w. The effects were very well done, as opposed to the cheesey effects of the first "Attack of the 50-Foot Woman". Costello stars as the town dolt who is in love with the town sweetheart. He is an inventor (tinkerer) who develops a machine that turns his bride (they elope) into a giantess. The girl's uncle is a rich tyrant who will go to all lengths from stopping the town from discovering what has happened to his "little" girl, but his plan falters when the girl gets tired of the constant bossing around she is subject to. It's kind of a cute movie, and her uncle is played by "Mister Mooney" from the old "I Love Lucy" series. A couple scenes show her dwarfing the town as she goes on a "rampage" by laughing at all the little men below her. She does some damage to a water tower, then runs for her home where she encounters her hot-tempered uncle who is still trying to boss her around even though she is many times larger than he. In a fit of rage she uproots two of the large trees planted in front of the home. I must also comment on the remake of "Attack of the 50-Foot Woman". I thought it was AWESOME! far better than the original with more action and excellent effects. Darryl Hannah looked awesome. Best scene is her returning to town to find her husband, Harry who is with the town slut. You get at least one one great shot of her gigantic, perfectly pedicured feet, and a great show of her astonishing physical feats. I think I'm about to wear-out the tape! Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. I look forward to my first mailing. Kim Fatica ------------------------------------------------- "The Grass may be greener on the other side, but it still browns with the seasons." -- Fatica ************************************************************** Date: Fri, 01 Apr 94 17:28:26 EST From: skier14@aol.com Subject: Source of "Amazon" First of all, what is the source of the title "Amazon" for strong assertive women. I think that this is somewhat derogatory for both "Amazon" women and inhabitants of the Amazon River basin. I would suggest an alternative, but I can't think of one, or think that it would catch on. Like most subscribers, I think that strong, athletic, muscular, (chose any of the three, as they are all appropriate) are more attractive than skinny "waifs", but I don't think that HEIGHT is a deciding factor...one can be an Amazon at 5'0". I am glad to have found a group of people who agree with, as mainstream society does not...although it may be mainstream soon (I hope). This is a great publication... the money I spent for the modem was well worth it! ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Source of "Amazon" > First of all, what is the source of the title "Amazon" > for strong assertive women. I think that this is somewhat > derogatory for both "Amazon" women and inhabitants of the > Amazon River basin. I would suggest an alternative, but I > can't think of one, or think that it would catch on. The alternative is "Woman". The reason that this cannot catch on at this time is that there are powerful cultural forces denying and pushing its meaning away from that of "Amazon", the forces that promote gender bipolarization and stereotyping. Hence there is a need for a term to identify and concretize the alternative, and which may possibly change the course. "Amazon" is the best candidate (and it is a good one IMNSHO) I can think of for such a term. It can only be perceived as derogatory if it is assumed to be a freak anomaly, while the feminine (and masculine) stereotype is assumed to be "normal" or "natural"; but we are thinking people, so we don't assume that. Instead, the context is that of creating and upholding an alternative, opening up an entirely new spiritual, emotional and physical potential. That's hardly derogatory for anybody, neither women warriors, nor other women, nor men; whether they live in the Amazon river basin or elsewhere. Incidentally, the Amazon river basin and its inhabitants are named after a group of female warriors there that greeted the Spaniards with a storm of arrows; already at that time the term "Amazons" referred generically to warrior women, not to any particular geographic or ethnical group. - Thomas ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 11:11:51 EDT From: gornisht@aol.com Subject: AOL means Amazons Online! Hello everyone! I'm a new subscriber to this list and have been catching up on past issues (thanks, Thomas). But I wanted to let all of you know that America Online has expanded its Internet gateway to include Gopher servers & WAIS, and that you can get AI through it VERY easily. Just click your mouse on the menu items, do a search for Amazons, and bingo! With just a few clicks, I was able to find all back issues of AI. Now, I should warn you that the AOL gopher server is still in its post-beta test stage, and there are a few bugs, BUT it's the easiest way I've seen yet to get AI. So...if you have friends who are chomping at the bit to get in on the fun, but don't have access to Internet via school or work, now they can get it through AOL. Whaddaya say we start a campaign to rename the network, "Amazons Online"? :) [Sounds appropriate to me. These days I get 4-5 new subscribers each day, and 3-4 of them are at AOL. -- Ed.] Take care and God bless. ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 14:50:48 EDT From: rtsallie@aol.com Subject: Bio Hi. My name is Robin Tiany Sallie. I am an Amazon. I have a black belt in shu ryn ru (and have trained in boxing, kick boxing, fencing and kenpo). I love to ride my rebel motor cycle or my Tennessee walker (horse) -- there is something truely erotic about having all that power between my legs. I spend a lot of time training with weights. My goal is to be strong and hard and well defined and I love to sweat. I love the ache and pull of my muscles after using heavy weights. I also enjoy making love to other Amazons. One of my favorite activities in this life is dominating other topwomen. At 5 foot 4 inches it is often a true challenge. Watching other tops work makes me hungry for them. I have a love of women in leather -- the smell of it makes me wet. I have never been in love, lust is a constant thing. I am attracted to women who know theirself, who have a presence and take you space with it. I am not talking about size either. They have an inborn note of authority in the voices and in the set of the shoulders. They touch things with an ownership that reveals a talent of handling objects and the women who desire to be objects. In my 32 years I have had quite a few lovers and nothing tops (no pun intended) making love with an other Amazon. I own my queer sexuality and dont let the media tell me it is wrong or that I am a pervert. It took me a long time to become comfortable with myself as a black queer Amazon sadomasochist. Sure they are all labels and together they barely scratch the surface of she who is me. To keep the horse in hay I work as a photojournalist at a major daily newspaper. I am new to Amazons International but thought I should check it out. I read a lot and prefer books with strong women characters. My favorites are Mama Day by Gloria Naylor and Macho Sluts by Pat Califia -- which is NOT for the hopelessly vanilla. robin* ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries