Amazons International # 38 ************************** Contents: NN38: Re: Women in armies Thomas: Re: Women in armies Rachelle: Bio & Amazonness Vicka: Reply to Wild Orchid Ahab: Amazon nature & womens' sports Tabitha: Bio Kim: Bio & psychology of body size Date of Transmission: 04.04.94 ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 15:49:34 -0600 (CST) From: NN38 Subject: Re: Women in armies I will not subscribe to Amazons International at this time, since I have time-limited access to e-mail via my professor's account on which I'm supposed to be doing research, not playing around in Internet. Thanks for the sample issue, it was very interesting and when in the future I have access to my own computer account I will be getting back in touch with you. Here is some info for Phyllis at Penn Univ. in regard to women warriors...first Boadicea is NOT Medieval!! She led a revolt against the Romans in 71 AD, see the whole story in Tacitus: Annals, Book 14.29-38. Available in translation in any good library. As for Eleanor of Aquitaine's extended picnic during the Second Crusade see Amy Kelly's "Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings", Harvard University Press 1978, p.30-40. I'm working on the last 9 hours of a MA in History with a specialization in Late Classical and Early Medieval. Any of your readers who is interested in women warriors should read "Saxo Grammaticus: The History of the Danes", translator: Peter Fisher, editor: Hilda Ellis Davidson. England: Rowman & Littlefield, 1980. Not only is Saxo a joy to read but it is full of stories about female warriors. Bye! ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: Re: Women in armies In AI # 37 Phyllis Rackin asked for references to women in the military -- here are some: Author : Salmonson, Jessica Amanda Title : The Encyclopedia of Amazons : women warriors from antiquity to the modern era Published : New York : Paragon House, 1991. 290 pp. ISBN : 1-557-78420-5 This book (which I've just ordered, incidentally) should cover quite a bit. While I haven't read it yet, I'm rereading another book, an Amazon short story anthology edited by Salmonson, ranging from fantasy to present day scenarios, and the introduction to this anthology names a lot of specific instances of women in the military. (I assume that that comparatively short intro does not contain anything that is not included in the Encyclopedia, and I don't have a reference to the English version of the anthology easily available.) This one is probably worth checking out too: Author : Wheelwright, Julie Title : Amazons and military maids : women who dressed as men in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness Published : London : Pandora, 1989. 205 pp. ISBN : 0-04-440494-8 In general, there may be a lot to find about women in the military in the various sociological, anthropological etc. literature about female-to-male transvestites. Unless Phyllis restricts her research to women who are accepted in the military as women, and the corresponding cultural periods. - Thomas ************************************************************** Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 23:50:29 -0500 (EST) From: Rachelle A Demunck Subject: Bio, and the nature of Amazonness I have been lurking for quite a while and figured that it was time to introduce myself. This will likely be a long post, and I apologize in advance. [No need to apologize -- for stuff like that I'd gladly give you an entire issue. --Ed.] My name is Rachelle, I am 22, and I live in Lansing, MI. Depending on your definition of an "Amazon", I may not look like much of one. I am 5'5", but I *feel* tall. (Mostly because all the women in my family are shorter than me -- 5'5" ain't much compared to some, but I *feel* tall.) I weigh between 130-140 lbs, so I look pretty average. Not terribly tall, not terribly muscled, not terribly thin. I don't possess tremendous strength, but I do hold my own. (I can carry 50 lb bags of grain with no problem, and can lug around 75-100 lb bales of hay.) I would like to get into a routine and improve my strength. I consider myself an Amazon because of my personality and mind, though. To me, an Amazon is a woman who celebrates herself, in all aspects -- not only those imposed or predescribed by society. But also, by *not* rejecting some aspects just because they have been "recommended" by society. Many of the things that I love doing are often decried by feminists as too traditionally female. However, many of the things I love doing are also highly non-traditional. I graduated from Michigan State University in 1992 with a BS in Zoology, with a concentration in Genetics, after only three years of study. Succeeding in the male-dominated world of science was a challenge, and I found that it only became worse in graduate school. I completed one term in the PhD program at State, before I realized that a research career just wasn't for me. I loved science, and I loved doing research -- as long as it was *my* project. What I couldn't accept, however, was my mentors' insistence that I forego all my other interests in pursuit of my degree. I did some long and hard thinking to define my priorities. I withdrew from the graduate program, and continued for another year at State, completing requirements for a BA in English, emphasis in Creative Writing. I love writing, but I still felt lost. I didn't know what I really wanted to do, what my "real calling" was. Early in 1993, in an effort to find something else to challenge myself with, I enrolled in an Automotive Repair class at the local community college. ("Hey, how hard can it be?") It was a piece of cake. Over the following semesters, I took classes in basic maintenance, brakes, transmissions, suspension, and electrical theory. I loved the classes. When people asked me "Why?" I always told them several reasons: I figured, "How hard can it be?", "I have such an old car (1983) that I need to learn how to keep it on the road," and "I like to do the unexpected." In September, I was looking for a job. (Rather desperately, by this time.) I found an ad in the newspaper advertising paid truck driver training. "Hey, how hard can it be to drive a truck?" Mostly on a lark, I called the number. The ... gentleman on the other end of the line, well, he couldn't believe that I was actually calling for my own information. He thought I was calling for my husband or boyfriend. "You know," he said, in a rather condescending tone reserved for very small children and idiots, "that we're talking about *big* trucks here... don't you. *Big* 18-wheelers." Well, that got my dander up. I made an appointment for an interview right then. I was interviewed, accepted, and trained. And I *love* the job. I absolutely *love* it. I have decided that this was my destiny, what I was born, bred, created to do. I am never happier than when I am behind the wheel of my rig. I get a tremendous (somewhat smug) satisfaction in knowing that *I* know how to drive something that few men can handle. I can control 80,000 lbs of machine -- with the raw power and speed as it tries to push you down a mountainside at 70-80-90 miles an hour. And I can manuever a 53-foot trailer into the tightest dock, with finesse and accuracy. Many people have a hard enough time parallel parking their car... Did you know you can parallel park a tractor trailer rig? I thrill in knowing that I can drive a 10speed manual transmission, when there are those out there who can't even drive a 4speed stick-shift in a *car*. I love trucking, I love driving. I love seeing the countryside. I love cars, and want to learn more about repair, restoration, and rebuilding. (One of my dreams is to rebuild a classic someday.) But I also have my stereotypically feminine side as well. I love horses. (I have one of my own, as well as a cocker spaniel.) I also adore sewing and quilting. I have made numerous quilts, and would love to make a small, freelance business on the side. I have made many clothes for myself -- most of which are dresses. When I sew for myself, I go for the exotic and the unique. When I want practical clothes, I'll buy them in the store. When I want a dress, I'll make exactly what I want. (Unfortunately, being a truck driver, there's never much opportunity to wear a dress.) To me, in a way, wearing a customized, tailored dress (customized to accent ... one's best features) is a way to celebrate one's femaleness, femininity. But I'm also just as much at home in jeans. I'll admit, sometimes I indulge in those somewhat foolish and impractical stereotypes of femininity -- the useless high heels; I will occassionally shave my legs, but only because *I* feel like it; sometimes I even wear fingernail polish. Well, that's about all, I guess. Myself, the anomaly -- Truck driver and seamstress. Rachelle DeMunck demunckr@student.msu.edu ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 14:14:45 -0800 From: the Littlest Orc Subject: Reply to Wild Orchid in AI # 37 Wild Orchid sez: > But I do have aspirations to begin some type of martial > arts training. I would appreciate support in the venture > of seeking physical conditioning and more control. > Suggestions with regard to what type of training or > exercises might be beneficial, but with low risk of injury > would also be welcomed. have you considered aikido (ki society)? it concentrates not only on physical development but on the advancement and understanding of ki, which leads to the kind of inner strength that makes the musclebound stuff actually work. > I can now admit that I prefer to date younger men. Still I > don't see myself as a feminist, or at least not in the way > the media portrays them. ?? i don't really see feminism as having any particular bearing on the ages of one's sex partners. feminism is, ultimately, about making it okay to be a woman as one pleases, even a strong one. the media may be going to all sorts of lengths to tar and feather the concept, but feminism as such is still its own animal. > I am interested in knowing if there truly are women who > live to wear denim and leather, who own their sexuality, > and are extremely interested in martial arts and > Harley-Davidsons... i prefer ducatis, but close enough :) cheers, --vicka ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 22:23:52 -0500 From: Ahab Subject: Musings on the Amazon nature and womens' sports I've been disconnected from cyberspace for a while so I have some catching-up to do on AI..... I shared Jennifer Sanborn's concern in AI # 34 about the AI postings that seem to view size alone as the prime Amazon attribute. While many women who develop their muscles may do so as an outward sign of inner Amazon selves, I believe that a certain outlook or psyche is a more potent ingredient of what I see as the Amazon nature. I resonate most with the folks who have spoken here about female athletes as real-world Amazons. I hope that athletes like Jennifer will continue to find enough reason to read AI, and to share their experiences and views with us. Can an Amazon be small? I think so. Take recently-retired kickboxer Kathy Long. All of 5' 5" and 122 lbs, she showed tremendous grit and staying power in the ring. I saw her get hammered early in one match by the intense, swarming Bonnie Canino, then bounce back and use her superior ring skills and endurance to win on points over 12 fiercely fought rounds. (This world featherweight championship bout left seasoned male kickboxing fans in awe of the gutsy performances by both women). Kathy also faced the hard-hitting British champion Lisa Howarth under (for her) unfamiliar Muay Thai rules. She still gave a good account of herself in one of her few ring losses. Kathy is muscular, with the biceps to excite many AI'ers, but she's no giantess. For me, her Amazon essence was in her determination to succeed in a sport where female role models were few (Graciela Casillas, Cheryl Wheeler) and against adversity (her opponents, chauvinistic promoters, etc). To me, the look in her eyes when she was tested hard was a better clue to her nature than her height or the size of her muscles. And you can see that look in the faces of female athletes in many sports. The town I live in is high on college basketball. It boasts a top-flight NCAA womens' team, and I remain amazed at how few males can recognize the competitiveness and teamwork of the womens' game simply because it is played below the rim! A preoccupation with spectacular dunks seems to prevent some people from seeing the physical and mental skills inherent in the womens' game. So an indifferent men's team basks in attention locally while one of the better womens' programs in the country plays second fiddle to it in media coverage and in spectator turnout for its games, which are often much more exciting and competitive. I wonder if we likewise miss something important if we over-fixate on size as an ingredient of Amazon-ness. Sure, the statuesque muscular beauty standing over 6' tall is a powerful image and the subject of all sorts of male fantasies as expressed from time to time here. But I have to ask "what is she doing with those attributes, and why?" to tell me whether she is truly an Amazon. Sheer size will not make her one. She will be Amazon in my book if she is uninhibited about using her physical and mental abilities as fully as possible to pursue goals of her own making, whether or not these conform to social norms of womanhood. And if she has that nature, she can be 5' and plain-looking and still be an Amazon. On another matter, I notice that all of the references to womens' boxing and kickboxing on AI so far come from men. I drew a blank earlier when I asked what the women who read AI and practice martial arts thought about boxing. Is this a taboo subject because boxing has been so male-dominated (and, at the professional level, laced with criminality)? I'd really be interested to hear what women who read AI think about boxing, even if it's not favorable. Do you see the sport as something just too male-oriented to have any merit? As a dangerous craziness that women would be smart to avoid? Did anyone notice that the ACLU recently helped a teenager in Washington state to force Box America to sanction its first official U.S. womens' amateur bout? (16-year old Dallas Malloy, who had to sue for the right to fight, defeated Heather Poyner in a welterweight bout. She was awarded a trophy for her effort -- depicting two male boxers!) Do you see such fully-sanctioned womens' boxing as a dubious nonsense, or as a new and interesting outlet for Amazon competitiveness? Jumping to another sport, I was disappointed to realize that womens' ice hockey is not a medal sport at Lillehammer, but is still waiting until the 1998 winter Olympics for full status. I was wondering how the world media would react to covering womens' play in one of the most contact-oriented team sports! I'm sorry we won't learn the answer sooner, but at least we should have that measure of progress behind us before the century ends! Does anyone know how many countries plan to develop womens' teams for 1998? Ahab ************************************************************** Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 17:58:02 EST From: "Tabitha L. Stapleton" Subject: Bio I just received my first issue of Amazons International, and I have never been so thankful in my life! I'm not 6'3 and muscular, but I am huge at 5'7 and 250lbs. I am sick and tired of feeling like I have no right to take up so much space. As a college student, most of the men my age (22) are threatened by my size and strength. It's good to find people who aren't. I look forward to future issues and messages from other subscribers. Tabitha L. Stapleton TLSTAP00@ukcc.uky.edu ************************************************************** Date: Sat, 02 Apr 94 23:02 From: KAZIMOUR.PEDS@mhs1.sth.ufl.edu (KAZIMOUR) Subject: Bio, and the psychology of body size I am new to the list and am looking forward to learning from your thoughts. I am not physically a large person (5'2", 110 lbs) but am a competitive triathlete and also participate in other endurance events such as marathons, long distance cycling, etc... I am also able to out lift many of the guys in the weight room and, because of my size, take a lot of grief about that. Have found myself doing my lifting either very late at night or very early in the morning simply to get away from the endless comments, catcalls, and sometimes outright hostility that being a small but strong woman seems to generate in these folks. Similar sorts of things seem to happen in competition..triathlon is about 80% male with the men basically ignoring the presence of the women except when they are passed during a race by one. That particular scenario tends to generate 'nasty comments'..I always find it interesting that even in very heated competition, when women are going head to head in racing and one person ultimately passes the other, supportive comments from the less fast person tend to almost always be given (such as.."Take it all the way!" or "You're racing strong today..hang in there!") In my non-racing life, I am a psychologist who works with young children and find that the mental toughness developed through endurance sport participation is quite helpful in the work arena. Again, however, I find that my size is very much a handicap, politically, as I am frequently "labeled" as being weak or incapable on first glance..particularly by the male physicians with whom I work. It does, however, seem to be an advantage with the kids, who decide quite quickly that I am not a threat to them. It is all a very interesting thing..how one's physical appearance can cause people to form such instant, and often erroneous, judgements. In all honesty, I would love to be a large, physically imposing person..however, since I am not I am hoping that there is a place within the Amazon way of thinking for someone like me, as well. Kim ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries