Amazons International # 33 ************************** Contents: Thomas: The Epic and the Everyday Jamie G.: Re: Amazons in music Pete J.S.: Bio Terry S.: Bio Marcia: Call for a polymorphous erotic Steve: Bio, bodybuilders and anorexic women Date of Transmission: 03.10.93 ************************************************************** [Ouch! My hand is really gone this evening, feels like a departed piece of lead plumbing, after I played squash with a Chinese Amazon earlier this evening and she squashed me in arm wrestling afterwards too. But this issue of AI _will_ go out today! -- Editor] ************************************************************** From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: The Epic and the Everyday Heroism, as it is depicted in art and literature, comes in a large continuous range of degrees and dimensions. Here I wish to focus on the two extreme ends of one dimension. I will call these the Everyday Hero and the Epic Hero. The Everyday Hero is the more or less ordinary person who gets into trouble, probably not by his or her own choosing, and who rise to the occasion, actualizing the best of their slumbering and unknown potentials in the process. The Everyday Hero seems familiar and realistic in that s/he could have been one of the neighbors, and because we are told about her or his confusion, conflicts and development. An example of this would be Harrison Ford in one of his I'm-an-ordinary- and-decent-person-but-don't-push-me-movies. The Everyday Hero is positive and inspiring through his familiarity and through the description of a gradual personal development that may provide one with clear ideas about steps to take in order to become like that, to realize one's possibilities. The Everyday Hero is the role model. The Epic Hero, by contrast, is out of this world, larger than life. An extraordinary person in extraordinary situations and difficulties, but handling it all without any serious problems. He -- for this is almost always a he -- goes or rather flies through life with panache, grandeur and big-time style. The Epic Hero is positive and inspiring through the images and emotions he evokes. He is not really a role model; he is rather the fertilizer that will prepare the ground so that role models may find a place to take root. We are talking about realism vs. symbolism. Realism is the vehicle you make that will carry you in the direction you want to go. Symbolism is the stars in the sky that can tell you the direction to go. The literature and arts are full of epic males and everyday male heroes. There is a growing number of everyday female heroes to be seen too, and that is good. But where are the epic women? The Epic Female Hero? She is conspicuously absent -- if you know that you are looking for her. (I owe the term "Epic Women" to Svein Olav Nyberg, who also ignited this article by noting their scarcity.) And that is my point with this article. How can young girls know what they should be looking for? Some girls find both inspiration and role models through identification with male heroic characters, and that's fine, but we should not have to rely on literary or artistic cross-dressing. We need both; the symbolism and the realism, the Epic Hero and the Everyday Hero. We don't need both in each text or each work of art, but we need a diet that contains both. Without the latter we will become escapists; and without the former we will become buried in the nitty-gritty of everyday life and lose the perspective and the emotional fuel that help us keep going. Individualist feminist writers and artists have started the work, creating realistic female heroes and holding up their 'lives' and developments, and they are expanding the range of female heroism. The range must be expanded to include the whole scale, also the epic range. Some write fantasy. Some make paintings. Some save drowning children. Some fight fires. Some make music or write lyrics. Some create fires. Some climb mountains. Some cross rivers. Some build bridges. Some build bodies. It's all the same, expanding the range. This is what Amazons International is all about. - Thomas ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 5 Sep 93 13:14:07 EDT From: gairns@ccrs.emr.ca (Jamie Gairns) Subject: Re: Amazons and Amazon themes in music Recently I was listening to a local radio show (Vinyl Femmes on CKCU 93.1 -- Ottawa, Canada) and I heard P.J. Harvey. I had heard of her, but never heard her music. The more I listened, the more I heard a strong woman who isn't afraid to scream at the world. Her lyrics are abrasive and hard-edged. I find this SO refreshing after so often hearing LIMP music done by women trying to appeal to a male audience. Especially videos. I find it REVOLTING to see male-centered music videos portraying women in the MOST degrading and pathetic roles. PJ Harvey (like Patti Smith, Siouxsie, Chrissy Hine, Lora Logic, Lene Lovich, et al...), IMHO, is fighting against the male centered industry with a STRONG statement. Women can compete! Thank bloody god! It is about time. I prefer women (women *AND* men) who can stand against a system and defy the existing structure. This is, to me, an integral part of the Amazon mentality. James ************************************************************** Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 17:45:41 +0200 From: Pete J Suters Subject: Bio I have just joined Amazons International, and I am really impressed with what I have seen so far. I've been reading several back issues (well, most of the day really), and I certainly feel that I am amongst friends here, so I thought I'd post a quick bio about my interest in Amazons. I am 26, tall and slim, but not athletic in any way. I prefer to think of myself as more of a cerebral person, and an individualist -- I suppose that's why I'm here. For as long as I can remember I have been drawn to Amazons. I have always been attracted to women who are in some way stronger than myself, be it in a physical way, or as a personality. My first crush was a girl at school who was tall, blond, and athletic. My personal definition of an Amazon would be a tall, striking woman, confident and positive about what she wants in life. Physically she would be powerful and muscular, capable of feats of strength far superior to mine. Sometimes agressive, she would not be afraid to fight for what she wants, but at the same time would be caring to her friends and lovers. For me, it is the combination of masculine and feminine elements in a woman that I would find attractive. I have long been a fan of female bodybuilders such as Sandy Riddell, Bernie Price and Raye Howlitt. They possess the athletic strength and muscularity which would normally be termed masculine, but at the same time an unmistakable femininity. They also possess an individuality and strength of character to step outside their traditional gender roles, and take up a sport which is traditionally a male preserve. I have to say, of all Amazons it is bodybuilders that I most admire and that I find the most attractive. Female wrestlers and arm-wrestlers are also very attractive to me as they can demonstrate their strength and ability in combat. I certainly dream of one day having the chance to get beaten in an arm wrestling match by a woman with a strong set of biceps. I think the idea of being physically overpowered by a strong woman is one of the most compelling for me. Finally, I'd like to say that I have really enjoyed the articles by women in this group -- it is not only comforting to know that there are other men in the world like me, but also that the women that I admire so much are out there too. I will continue to read with great interest, and hope to contribute again sometime in the future. Thanks, Pete ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 19:12:42 From: terry.smith@asb.com Subject: Bio I have been a reader for some time, and I thought it was about time for a small bio. I am a 41 years old male, who has always been one to secretly admire the Amazonian thought line. I do not only mean in the physical sense, but also in the mental sense. Should I meet a woman who can be equally or greater than I in the mental state (a long time drought so suffered in Southern California:-)), I am well sure that she could devise a way to charm the socks and everything else off me. This does not mean that a physical physique doesn't turn my head, for it does that well enough! But I do enjoy a woman who has command features, and knows it. I am not saying that the woman has to be a dominatrix or nothing at all, but there are times that I would not be uncomfortable in that realm of the mind. A warrior mind-set is one that I can appreciate, being part Native-American by birth. I am one that would also, enjoy a combative atmosphere, with a woman who would be most comfortable (similar to a few of the AI articles I've read). I have just finished seeing the Montel Williams show and the subject was female bodybuilding. The panel consisted of 6 female bodybuilders, and could they really be sexy? The answer is YES! I just wonder if anyone else has seen the show? Terry L. Smith ************************************************************** Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1993 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: ian@zodiac.rutgers.edu Subject: Call for a polymorphous erotic Greetings -- I'm an Amazon, I suppose, though such taxonomies alarm me -- I've been reading AI since Thomas first asked me if my piece on bodybuilding could be included in it from Post Modern Culture [see AI # 18 for excerpts, or pick up the entire article from the FTP archive -- Ed.] -- and I thought it was time I added my voice to the very interesting and provocative chorus -- I'm an English professor, mother of two, scholar and psychoanalytic theorist who is very into heavy metal music and death metal and jazz and a bodybuilder -- not tall, only 5'4" but very muscular and strong -- the strongest woman at my gym -- I'm well aware of the repulsion and fear many straight women and men (especially white men) feel toward me -- and various kinds of attractions others feel toward me. But the reason I'm writing at this point has to do with my wish to disturb the stereotypes that rule AI -- I myself seem to be a walking contradiction in that I look like a dyke but am tres hetero -- I resemble Sigourney Weaver in _Aliens_ and people always think I'm gay -- I'm macho and femme both -- as macho as femme -- and I have almost no desire to squash or dominate men -- no fantasy of stuffing diminutive men into my bosom or other clandestine places but have considerable desire to be pounded into the ground by some big guy -- IN ADDITION TO -- taking my turn at being the dominant one -- I like big muscular guys, and also small funny warm sensitive guys and big sweet sensitive guys, or little butchy guys -- as well as macho women -- so go figure it out -- but I think AI might want to be opened up to a more polymorphous erotic, not so limited by the binaries of mere antithesis, y'know, big strong woman man-who-wants-to be small (gee I hope this isn't a mother/child thing...) -- even though I appreciate the fact that AI is reversing the usual m/f relations, and I am grateful that there are men in the world who are turned on by strong women -- can't the strong and submissive roles be exchanged, shared -- can't caretaking and rapacious lovemaking be a joint project? A polymorphous erotic seems much more egalitarian to me that a dominant/submissive lockstep. Just a thought -- peace and joy to you all. Marcia Ian ************************************************************** Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1993 19:13:52 -0400 (EDT) From: steve200@delphi.com Subject: Bio, bodybuilders and anorexic women [Note from editor: I feel that the tone in parts of this article is balancing on the borderline of what I will allow in AI (not the issues and sentiments expressed, but the way they are expressed); nevertheless I publish it as it stands, without any changes. If somebody feels badly incensed, disappointed, stereotyped, objectified, or whatever by this article and think I should have edited it more actively, feel free to tell me about it, complain etc. -- Thomas] I have three topics to discuss: (1) As you probably know from my subscribing to AI, I think women with big muscles are sexy. I don't care for tall, fat, or women with aggressive personalities (in fact, I think they make women less attractive). The bigger, and stronger the woman, the sexier she is. Unfortunately, in today's society, skinny anorexic women are revered more often. Did anyone see the _People_ magazine with the Skin and Bones cover on it. That girl is SKINNY. I think women like that are totally disgusting. I have heard that anorexic women who weigh in the vicinity of 80 pounds lose enough muscle tone to make them very weak. We are talking of MAXING 40 pounds on the bench press. I think that there should be a _People_ magazine cover comparing one of these magazine anorexics with a REAL woman (like Sandy Riddell or Tonya Knight or Zap at their peak form) with these models in a side by side comparison in bikinis or something like that. The size difference would absolutely be enormous. I would LOVE to see a strength comparison too. If a real bodybuilding woman can handle 300 lbs benchpresses, it would take 7 women to overcome the immense strength of an Amazon! Just picture a photograph of 7 women benchpressing a weight that one Amazon can do! Surely, that article would turn heads. Of course, I think this should be enlargened to deadlifting, arm wrestling, and even a tug of war. Surely, that magazine article can show people that women can have another side to them. (2) Who is your favorite female bodybuilder? Mine is one that I think is very underrated. Her name is Kathy Unger. Most bodybuilding women have faces that look to masculine. However, Kathy has a very feminine face, and she has a SUPERMUSCULAR body. Her neck is as thick as a tree trunk, her burly arms can make even bodybuilding men jealous, and her legs are simply enormous. Her best body part though is her chest and abs. They are soooooo ripped! I never before thought a woman looking like her could have possibly become so strong! (3) A friend told me a while ago that there was a female bodybuilding competition on Venice beach. I nearly DIED that I didn't hear about it. I live in the Los Angeles area and I wanted to see this show. Does anyone know of a female bodybuilding competition on the beaches of Venice coming soon? I would *LOVE* to see these women flex their muscles in real life. I want to see if I can even ask one to armwrestle. I would like to see if women have gotten strong enough to beat men in this sport. Any comments? Steve ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries