Amazons International # 30 ************************** Contents: Ed C.: Bio NeoWarrior: Modern definitions Stan: Bio Ahab: Women's boxing Ahab: BoxOn -- Amazon software Solan: Tyra, Granddaughter of the Earth Keith: Different Loving -- mini-review Date of Transmission: 20.06.93 ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 14:35:18 -0500 (EDT) From: erc@apple.com (Ed Carp) Subject: Bio Well, after hanging out on this list for a couple of months, I suppose it's time to introduce myself. I am male, 35, 5'7", 140 lbs., and have a spiritual history involving Eastern mysticism (very much influenced by Zen) as well as being educated in classic Western Christianity. I have, over the years, come to appreciate strong, powerful, intelligent women who have a sense of balance involving men and women. I have seen too many men and women who didn't have a very balanced sense of equality between men and women -- they either engaged in women-bashing or men-bashing, which I find personally distasteful. Anyway, I have in the past year or so come to have an appreciation for women who are taller, heavier, and stronger than I, and to not feel threatened by that more dominant physical presence; in fact, to enjoy that presence as enhancing and valuing my role as a male. I feel honored that a strong powerful woman would honor me with her presence. 'Twas not always so -- perhaps I'm gaining a little wisdom in my old age. Ed Carp erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com 510/659-9560 -- "It is your resistance to 'what is' that causes your suffering." -- Buddha ************************************************************** Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 15:37:48 -0600 From: warrior@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Latona) Subject: Modern definitions of the Warrior Spirit Seeing people not working to fulfill their potential is always disappointing, whether they are female or male. A few years ago, a friend of mine handed me the attached definition of a Modern Warrior, by George Leonard. When I read it, I thought "wow, that's me." Many of the Amazons International recipients I hope will also find utility in the material. A "Modern Amazon" is a "Modern Warrior" who happens to be female, as far as I can tell. I would like to hear any replies, either in AI or to my reply-to address. However, I am leaving in mid-July to serve for two years in Uganda as a community extension forester with Peace Corps. Nevertheless, my E-mail will be forwarded and taken care of by a friend. I wish the best of luck in all endeavors, -- NeoWarrior (Latona) <<<<<< HEED THE CALL TO ADVENTURE >>>>>> the promised definition follows: THE MODERN WARRIOR (1) -- The Modern Warrior is not one who goes to war or kills people, but rather one who is dedicated to the creation of a more vivid peace. (2) -- The Modern Warrior honors the traditional warrior virtues: loyalty, integrity, courtesy, courage, prudence, and benevolence. (3) -- The Modern Warrior pursues self mastery through will, patience, and diligent practice. (4) -- The Modern Warrior works to perfect himself or herself not so much as a means to achieving some external goal as for its own sake. (5) -- The Modern Warrior is willing to take calculated risks to realize his or her potential and further the general good. (6) -- The Modern Warrior is fully accountable for his or her actions. (7) -- The Modern Warrior seeks the inner freedom that comes from the study of aesthetics, culture, and the wisdom of the ages. (8) -- The Modern Warrior respects and values the human individual and the entire web of life on this planet. To serve others is of the highest good. To freely give and accept nourishment from life is the Warrior's challenge. (9) -- The Modern Warrior reveres the spiritual realm that lies beyond appetites and appearances. (10) -- The Modern Warrior cherishes life and thus conducts his or her affairs in such as manner as to be prepared at every moment for death. In this light, he or she is able to view all complaints, regrets, and moods of melancholy as indulgences. (11) -- The Modern Warrior aims to achieve control and act with abandon. (12) -- The Modern Warrior realizes that being a warrior doesn't mean winning or even succeeding. It does mean putting your life on the line. It means risking and failing and risking again, as long as you live. -- George Leonard When the samurai Kikushi was ordained to bodhisattva (one devoted to lifelong service), his master told him "You must consecrate yourself wholly to each day, as though a fire were raging in your hair." ************************************************************** Date: Sun, 6 Jun 93 22:39:33 -0500 From: stan@tta.com (Stan Hanks) Subject: Bio and Greetings! I tripped across this list for the first time a few days ago when I was asked to compile a list of lists on a particular subject. I had no idea that there would be such a forum available. A bit about myself: I'm in my 30s, I'm 6'3", weigh 300 pounds and look pretty much like a pro football defensive lineman. I hit 6 feet even, 200 pounds at the start of the seventh grade. Needless to say, this made for some difficulties in both my adjustment to life in general, and in particular with my relationships with girls. I've worked out for most of my life, but I'm more at home in more of the power-lifter condition than a ripped and shredded bodybuilder trim. I have had this fascination with women approaching my size for as long as I can remember. Part of it is that they seem "normal" to me, and part of it is that I don't have to worry about "breaking them" if we get physical. Early in college, I dated a girl who was about 5'10" and was muscular and tomboyish. I enjoyed it immensely, even though my downstairs neighbors thought it was the end of the world when we would play-wrestle. Later, I dated a girl who was 6 feet even, and large boned. She didn't have the strength or inclination to "play" that my previous Amazon did, but still was a great deal more comfortable than the Little Women I dated in between. My wife is only 5'7", but is in serious bodybuilding training. She is one of the strongest women I know, and what she lacks in height, she more than makes up for in sheer muscle mass. I *LIKE* being with a woman I can't pick up with one hand. I *REALLY LIKE* being squeezed by someone who can squeeze back! Anyway, the topics on this list are potentially of great interest to me, and possibly to my wife as well. Thanks for being there! Stan ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 From: Ahab Subject: Official recognition of womens' boxing Thomas says (of Norway): > Competitions in kick-boxing for women is accepted, and > there's even a Norwegian female international champion of > kickboxing (Helga Risoy), but there are no boxing > championships for women; such events are not permitted or > recognized by the National athletics association. I've heard that Canada is the _only_ country whose national amateur boxing association has formally sanctioned womens' competition. Can anyone confirm this? The Canadian association, after much lobbying by Jenny Reid, permitted a three-round match between her and Therese Robitaille during an official tourney in Sydney, Nova Scotia in August 1991. Both women train with amateur youth boxing clubs in their areas -- Jenny in Kingston, Ontario and Therese in Fredericton, New Brunswick. So both of them had connections to the men's boxing community before their "official" fight. It may also be significant that Jenny Reid is a lawyer. I wonder if the Canadian association thought it better to let these two take each other on in the ring than to have Jenny Reid take _them_ into court? Are there any Canadians reading A.I. who could say whether the Reid-Robitaille match was an isolated case, or did it open the door for more sanctioned womens' action in the Great White North? Does anyone know of any other countries where womens' boxing (Queensbury rules) is officially recognized as a legitimate amateur sport? A problem faced in some countries by women who want to box is that the men's boxing association tries to prevent them from participating. This can go beyond just ignoring womens' action, all the way to actively trying to suppress it. In Britain, trainers and gym owners who let women join in their boxing programs have been threatened with boycotts, etc., so it is particularly hard for women to find competent trainers. Sue Atkins/Catkins was a competent English boxer who clearly enjoyed the sport but could not get enough time in the ring or a gym to keep her skills sharp. Pressure from the mens' boxing fraternity has directly contributed to the lack of facilities that are open to women. In the U.S., the opportunity to make a few extra $$ by letting women into boxing gyms has improved the situation recently, but mostly via the yuppie-oriented "boxing lite" programs. In these, you are taught boxing movement and punching skills, but sparring is only one-way -- you get to hit the trainer but the trainer only throws punches at you, they won't land. This can provide a novel workout, but it misses boxing's main point (even as self-defence training) -- you have to learn to keep going after you've been hit. Without full-contact sparring, it's really only "pretend boxing", and not a big step toward an authentic womens' sport. Some martial arts groups have displayed a much more progressive attitude to women, and some kickboxing/karate associations have promoted their womens' action enthusiastically to widen their appeal. Master Toddy in Britain has trained some world-class women kickboxers, for example, and Thai boxing meets in Britain have contained some good female matches. The contrast with the regular boxing scene there is particularly striking. Womens' kickboxing is clearly alive and well in the U.S., with coverage of major matches on the cable TV sports channels, celebrities (often including male professional boxers) in the ringside seats, etc. Again, the contrast with the regular boxing scene is amazing, and does not make much sense. Have any of the women A.I. readers who practise martial arts (Crystal, HellQat, Kathryn?) ever tried boxing or kickboxing? If so, I'd be interested to hear whether or not you were encouraged by anyone in an amateur or professional gym, and what difficulties you encountered. If not, I'd be interested to know whether you just never thought about it, or whether you had a specific reason to stay clear of these sports. Ahab ************************************************************** Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 From: Ahab Subject: BoxOn: Some home-grown Amazon software Randy (A.I. 27), Thomas (A.I. 17) and Chuck (A.I. 12) have mentioned Amazon computer games (armed combat, wrestling, etc.). Here's something that might interest any of you who would enjoy "Amazon boxing" on a PC. I've written an MS-DOS program, called "BoxOn", that isn't a game as such, but models a boxing match. The fighters are described by tables measuring their ring skills, strength, style and endurance as well as height, weight, etc. You choose a pair of fighters, the number of rounds and their length, and to some extent the rules, then watch them go to it. You see a blow-by-blow description of the match, with a running display of each boxer's condition, on a text screen. Between rounds, you can "manage" both fighters by selecting their strategies for the coming round (fighting inside or out, going for a knockout, covering up to recover from a bad round, etc.), based on their condition and the progress of the fight. "BoxOn" involves many aspects of real boxing, including action on the ropes and in clinches, injuries, knockdowns, interventions by the referee, fouls, and disagreements in points scoring among three judges. No two matches between the same two boxers are identical, so there's enough suspense and uncertainty to be entertaining. Again, it's not an action game, no joysticks or animation, etc. But several ring-oriented friends of mine enjoy it as an exercise in "fantasy boxing". Because I'm a fan of womens' boxing, I've made a version of "BoxOn" that's geared to female action. I'm also gathering data on real female boxers, past and present, to add to this version. And I'm enhancing it to display scanned pictures of the boxers as you pick them to fight. (Female "BoxOn" can be run with or without these pictures, according to your taste and how much disk space you have to spare. The simple text-only version will run even on minimal MS-DOS machines, such as older notebooks with only a floppy drive. The pictorial version requires VGA graphics, and a hard disk to hold the pictures). Would anyone here be interested in the female version of "BoxOn" as freeware? I'd be happy to send disks to a few people for free, or to post it to an anon-ftp site if there's a lot of interest. (You could easily add your own "Amazon boxers", real or imaginary, to it once you've got a feel for how it works.) I'd be especially interested in sharing it with anyone who could give me information about womens' boxing and boxers in their part of the world. Particularly if you could send me scanned boxer pictures (or lend me pictures to scan) to add to "BoxOn"'s repertoire. So please post to A.I. if you're interested in any of this and we can take it from there... Best wishes, Ahab ************************************************************** Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 13:00:29 +0100 From: solan@math.uio.no (Svein O.G. Nyberg) Subject: Tyra, Granddaughter of the Earth Tyra watched the desert. From her vantage point on top of the cliff she could see the despicable men's army that the Andrians had sent after her. They were presently dealing with one woman -- her mother, the Sun. The vermin could little withstand the power of her scorching rays. They say a daughter takes after her mother. How true. Like the Sun does not live for its worshippers, but simply beams by her own being, so Tyra lived for her own sake, and not for the satisfaction of mindless -- mere followers! In fact, she loathed worshippers almost more than enemies. Just yesterday this drooling idiot had approached her: "My name is Moth Coyoteson, may I wrestle Thee, oh Tyra?" Wimp, who had learned a thing or two, blankly told him "She is a Woman, and is of Fighting Spirit, not Wrestling Spirit." He had brushed Wimp aside -- poor helpless Wimp, and said he was talking to Tyra, not him. Tyra grabbed Moth, and crushed him in her armpit. How stinking the fragments were! Six millenia before the invention of the deodorant. But the army was despicable because they were enemies. They were approaching the cliff, and made wonderful targets for her 500 lb pebbles. But though they were slain by the hundreds, they came by the thousands. Just like ants. Now they were even getting close. She could hear their priests: "Repent! Repent! Mend thy foul ways and return to the place where women belong! Repent, and Phallus thy God will forgive thee! Get down on your knees and repent while you can!" Priests! The common man was bad, raping the innocent young woman in her body. Worse was the priest, for he raped her in her heart and in her belonging to the Sun and the Earth, every woman's mother and grandmother. If the priests had not raped their minds, the men would never have been able to rape their bodies. With her battle axe in a constantly circling motion sweeping off the heads of hundreds, she made her way over to the high priest. She tore off his fancy robe and threw his staff into the crowd, killing ten more. Before her stood a pale, skinny figure. This is what a priest is when you get to the bottom of it. Grabbing him by his balls, she held him up high over her head: "This is what you follow!" She looked out at the now silent mass. She swung her arm fast around until the sound of ripping skin was heard, and she was left with only the parts that made the priest a man. "And this -- is what you worship!" It was all silent around her, as they all watched the priest's genitals lose their last drops of blood to the ground. Then came the clanging sound of weapons being dropped. 700 000 men walked away without making any more sound. That night, it rained in the desert. ************************************************************** Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 17:14:46 PDT From: Keith Rowe Subject: Different Loving -- mini-review _Different Loving_ by Brames, Brames and Jacobs has just been released. This book records interviews with hundreds of people involved in all sorts of Dominance and Submission activites. It does a good job of explaining why people find these activities exciting and what exactly they do. Somewhat surprisingly, they devote a whole chapter to Erotic Combat. Those who have been on this list for a long time know that Thomas was instrumental in getting this chapter into the book. He is interviewed at length and describes his vision of "Gender Heroics" and Amazons quite well. Three other people are interviewed. A woman describes her wrestling experiences with her lover. A professor describes his experiences as an avid follower of amateur female wrestling. An engineer (who's name is co-incidentally the same as mine :-) talks about his Erotic Combat experiences and how they cross over to D&S play. All four interviews and the summary that appears before them are handled quite well. Although I'm personally embarrassed at how awkward my grammar appears when my spoken words are written down, I must say that they did a great job of presenting peoples' viewpoints without too much editing or analysis. It's intriguing to see just how different the interests of four people who all fit into the "Erotic Combat" chapter really are. Thomas comes across as having thought very deeply about the subject. He captures one view of the psychological and spiritual aspects of women who think of themselves as Amazons. The professor appears to be more interested in the voyeuristic aspects of female combat. He talks a lot about the various venues that are available and the large number of videos and magazines that cater to this interest. He also describes his experience attending live matches. The woman talks mostly about her experience in D&S and how that has occasionally crossed over into wrestling scenes. I talked about this, too, but from the other angle -- how wrestling crosses over to D&S play. Overall, it was a pretty well handled chapter. In years of searching mainstream (and not so mainstream) literature this is the most complete treatment of our favorite pastime that I've ever seen in print. It should certainly give this list a lot to talk about for the next few months. Keith. ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries