Amazons International # 29 ************************** Contents: Crystal: Bio Jamie: Amazon music Ahab: Bio & the Amazon spirit and physicality Date of Transmission: 02.06.93 *************************************************************** Date: Mon, 24 May 93 From: Crystal Subject: Bio Greetings! I found this list in October of 92. I decided its time to submit.... and let you know a bit about me, then I'll go back to lurking. :-) The name of this list caught my eye because the guys in grade school would call me an amazon.. they kept asking to borrow my shoes so they could go canoeing, who knows what their fantasies were at that age.... most likely an adventure like the T.V. show Wild kingdom. I have been 5'10" since the sixth grade, tallest in my class and very competitive intellectually and physically. This all changed about ten years ago. While in Graduate school I found my right size so's to speak and have taken a more spiritual approach to what I do with my life. HellQat shares.... > To me the essence of my Amazonness is the strength of my > spirit, my intellect, and the oneness of all that is me > with all that is, yet still recognizing the uniqueness that > is me. It's a very Zen concept. Your thoughts are in concurrence with mine this evening. My profession is as a landscape gardener/designer. In my private time I love working with bonsai trees. I just read this from another bonsai enthusiast: "Capitalize on what the tree wants to do, rather than try to make it do something that is not in its nature. If a tree wants to cascade, it may be that it could be trained to stand straight. However, who would want to be that tree?" -M.S I have to say that this bit of philosophical thought strengthens my resolve when I feel apart from how the media/ societies portrays and expects women to be. I am very self reliant and defiant, maybe too much in some areas to the point of being a recluse. I have always wanted to be able to do things myself which has lead me to be self sufficient. I am challenged by anything that is physical, be it cutting down a tree or building garden or tearing my racing bike down and building it again, or fixing anything around the house that might be broken, etc. I am very practical in my thinking which manifests in my lifestyle. What can I say? I drive a ford truck! I don't consider the way I go about my life as trying to *act* like a man, as some of my Virginia denizens view me. I believe I just evolve like the tree that wants to cascade, I follow my own lead and work on breaking the limitations I have set for myself. I find that if I take responsibility for my own mind set, even if it has been conditioned by my family and my american culture, I can then be free to change it. Another reason for being here is to read those statements of support I here from other women and men like myself. Mark Nowak shares... > Somewhere I was taught that according to myth, Amazon women > were such fierce warriors that they cut off their left > breasts to make themselves more proficient archers. > I believe they also killed any male offspring. Great myth, eh? I read in the Book _Wounded Woman_ that the male offspring were crippled at birth. Men were for breeding and performed the more domestic duties, the antithesis of what's been and still is expected of most women. We are even physically crippled by some men in the case of rape or battering. Interesting that they would cripple the males, maybe they knew that males were capable of greater physical strength... [I don't know -- there is this tribal nation called the Minaro people living somewhere in the Himalaya region, where the women do all the heavy physical work as well as being the leaders, while the men are assigned domestic chores and child care. As a result the women grow bigger and stronger than the men. Now, I'm opposed to any enforcement of rigid roles based on sex -- but my point is, crippling the males is not a necessary precondition for creating a society where women are physically stronger than men, and/or physically dominating... The Minaro people is described in an article in Time magazine; March 5th, 1984, p.66. -- Thomas] It's true that physical strength has its benefits. I love all kinds of sports. Currently I am weight lifting, taking aerobics and Tae Kwon Do. (HellQat... I studied Tai Chi also.) I also swim, cycle, and run. I find that body building helps me enjoy my other activities. I love the look of strong women, men too. I don't like the steroid look but prefer natural muscularity. Kara shares... > I love the feeling of hugeness, of blowing people away. It comes through in your writing as well.. I had to hold the paper back while I read, there was so much energy in your expression of yourself! I thought are you real? or a fantasy story of Mike's. Feels good to break the ice, Take care all, *Crystal* *************************************************************** Date: Wed, 26 May 93 21:44:01 EDT From: gairns@ccrs.emr.ca (Jamie Gairns) Subject: Amazon music; music for bodybuilding posing routines I was thinking of something that might be of interest. My dear friend (who subscribes to your newsletter) is going to be competing next year and she asked what music she should pose to. That started me thinking about Bodybuilding Women and their posing routines. One of my all-time favourite topics. She is an AMAZING woman in EVERY way. I hope she reads this, because I have UTTER confidence in her chances of winning. 'K' has shared SO many wonderful times with me that I feel compelled to repay her by helping her first Bodybuilding win -- I HOPE! :) ['K', eh? What is it about that letter? :-) --Thomas] Anyways, I personally like strange UNpop music, like Industrial music, in particular. There are a few schools of thought here, the way I see it. Hard, harsh music which reminds me of the physical icon that she is breaking. Ministry, KMFDM, Revolting Cocks, Laibach etc... I think I know a few songs that would be perfect. There is another one, which she is equally comfortable with. There is sultry, sensual Jazz-style music that I can picture her posing to (and have MANY times) ;) Sorry K, but it's true. :) The only style of music I am not fond of for posing routines is classical music. Although I adore classical, I find it too stuffy and sterile for the display of a physique. I would be very interested to hear what our revered Female Bodybuilders and their supporters think. I am making a cassette of samples for her to listen to and hopefully it will be my tune(s) she chooses. If not, then she will STILL kick butt!! :) Thanks, James p.s. 'K' .... I can't WAIT for another bunch of photos. :) -- players win and winners play *************************************************************** Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 17:40:52 -0400 From: Ahab Subject: Bio & the Amazon spirit and physicality What an intriguing group! I'm really looking forward to participating in it, so here's my "hello A.I. world" post! (Unfortunately, the agency I work for doesn't encourage this sort of use of its computers, so I'd better not advertise where I'm connecting from. Hope this anonymity doesn't bother you all too much.) I'm a 6'1" male, born and raised in England but now living in the U.S.A. I've been happily married to the same lady for over 20 years. I was trained as a physicist but now work mainly in computer image processing. When I was younger I was a moderately capable short-distance runner. I now enjoy outdoor recreation, especially mountain hiking, canoeing and cross-country skiing, and (surprise!) I'm a computer hobbyist. I've got two main reasons for being interested in discussing Amazons. First, I dislike the way that gender typing in our society tries to smother the growth of self esteem in young women, and tries to channel them toward submissive roles in life. I've met a number of women who feel that their upbringing, as received from parents of either gender, oriented them away from taking charge of their own lives and realising their full potential. I'm interested in the "Amazon attitude" that's being described here because it opposes such debilitating trends. I would like to see our society mature into one in which women face no more barriers to becoming (for example) star ice hockey players, top engineers, generals, auto mechanics, lumberjacks, firefighters, submariners or professional boxers than do men with similar abilities. Fostering the Amazon attitude, in younger women especially, could contribute to breaking through the barriers. In this sense, an Amazon concept may resonate with some feminist goals. (I'm not sure the Amazon ideal is popular among feminists, however. I found A.I. by reading Thomas's Amazon definitions on soc.feminism, but I saw warnings beside them about this group's emphasis on violence. This mailgroup was the only one to carry a warning label there!) [I just checked that. The following sentence has been added to my description: "Note that some women have pointed out that to them the list seemed rather male-oriented, very physical". There you go: physical = male-oriented. As if a physical woman somehow is less woman than a woman who is not (or less) physical. It just goes to show what we're up against, doesn't it? And that sentence has been added without anybody bothering to ask or even notify me. -- Editor] Second, I don't see why society should discourage the physical development of women in contrast to that of men. I don't just, or even particularly, mean development in terms of bulging muscles. Rather, I mean development in terms of learning how to apply physical strength, precise movement and coordination to a wide range of activities in life, including manual work, exercise, contact sports, recreation, self-defence. Males are encouraged to develop in such areas whether they are genetically well prepared for them or not. Females are often discouraged from developing in them as soon as doing so makes them stray too far from a societal norm, again with little regard for individual variation and capability. I think such societal pressures end up harming many individuals -- especially those who have to endure them from their family and friends before they are mature enough to handle such confrontations. To me, the "physical Amazon" who enjoys developing and using her own physical strength and prowess is just exercising one of many possible lifestyle choices. I don't see why society should set out to discourage her. In America, the recent emphasis on the benefits of physical fitness and on equal opportunities for women and men are changing some of these norms, but there is still a long way to go. I see quite a range of opinions here about whether it is more an attitude or physical stature that makes someone an Amazon. Is there a dichotomy between the bodybuilders and the others over this? To me, someone becomes an "Amazon" by developing a combination of physical and mental skills rather than by achieving a particular musculature. She has agility, speed and strength allied to courage, boldness and determination. My Amazon ideal involves someone who sees herself as an individual developing her talents as fully as possible in all areas of physical or mental activity that delight her, without any concern for societal stereotyping. So I feel that attitude and outlook can make someone an Amazon without her necessarily having an overwhelming physical presence. (I think I'm on the same wavelength as Jamie Garns in his post from last August over this). As an example, I'd say that some of the female _contestants_ on TV's American Gladiators (referring back to one of Icehawk's messages) show more Amazon traits than some of the Gladiators. How? Although there are very few female contestants on the show who are anywhere near as big or well-muscled as the women Gladiators, some manage to beat the Gladiators in the most physical of the competitions, e.g. the conquer ring, the joust or powerball. When an athletic but "regulation-sized" woman wrestles a big Gladiator out of the conquer ring, or takes her lumps and slugs it out with the pugil-sticks, the key to her success is often boldness, temperament and speed. The bigger Gladiators are sometimes so confident that their sheer size and strength will carry the day that they can be taken off-guard by the determination and feistiness of a smaller contestant. They can sometimes be made to look merely big and foolish! No doubt who the true Amazon is when that happens! I think contact sports for women is a good topic for this group because they are an arena for developing athleticism and determination in real-world Amazons. Some of these sports are finally gaining recognition as first-class events. Womens' ice hockey has been mentioned before (Jennifer Sanborn, Icehawk) -- did you notice that a goalie (Manon Rheaume) on the new NHL team in Tampa was the first female ever to play on a U.S. professional team in regular league competition? Manon was on the Canadian national womens' team and I believe she is still on the Tampa roster though she has only played part of one period in regular-season play. I think it's great that womens' hockey is finally becoming a real Olympic medal competition, as that may stir things up a bit when U.S. network TV covers the Lillehammer games. But possibly the best developing grounds for practical Amazons are the martial arts. Of these, boxing (if you'll accept boxing under the Queensbury rules as a "European martial art") is in _some_ ways the most rigorous way to build self-esteem and toughness. I say this because boxing tends to involve more close-in action than do many of the Eastern styles that use kicks as well as punches, and because anyone training as a boxer has to get used to being hit without losing their presence of mind and/or their ring strategy. I guess the ultimate in this direction would be Muay Thai, yet even the much less dangerous "English" boxing seems to be almost entirely off-limits as a serious pursuit for American women. [This is also the case in Norway. Competitions in kick- boxing for women is accepted, and there's even a Norwegian female international champion of kickboxing (Helga Risoy), but there are no boxing championships for women; such events are not permitted or recognized by the National athletics association. -- Thomas] I find this surprising because some forms of kickboxing or "full-contact karate" apparently are not, and because there are some competitive womens' boxing clubs in (allegedly) conservative Europe. Does anyone have any insights into why womens' boxing is almost non-existent in the U.S.? Do American women not wish to be associated with the seediness that has surrounded mens' professional boxing over the years? Or does the sport seem too close to the soft-porn "boxing videos", or "foxy boxing" in bars? Or is there a male boxing establishment working to keep women out of the ring? It seems to me that legitimate amateur womens' boxing in schools and clubs could teach confidence, movement, speed, self-defence and self-reliance, and so could have a big role in fostering Amazon principles. Why is it so little practised, even while kickboxing has well-publicised "stars" like Kathy Long and Ramona Gatto? Why doesn't anyone promote women's boxing as an Olympic event, seeing as the mens' event is long-established? Amazon ideals would really be taking hold if we see the women earn Olympic gold in the boxing ring one day! Enough for now, I'll just end with Greetings and good wishes to you all, Ahab ********************************************************** * Amazons International * * Thomas Gramstad, editor: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Administravia: amazons-request@math.uio.no * * Submissions: amazons@math.uio.no * ********************************************************** "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries