Amazons International # 25 ************************** Contents: Vicka: Bio & some responses... List of Bem Sex Role References Tony: Bio, women throwers & body size Oath of the Free Amazons Solan: Tyra, Daughter of the Sun Date of Transmission: 23.02.93 ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:02:18 -0800 From: the Littlest Orc Subject: Bio & some responses... An introduction, and a couple of responses.... My name's Vicka Rael Corey; I'm not sure whether or not I'd qualify as an Amazon by the standards described here. I'm certainly a "strong woman" in a variety of ways -- I study aikido and bike for endurance, I like to roughhouse, I'm a network hacker and a neuroscientist by various trades, I'm pretty argumentative and very hard to intimidate. On the downside (so to speak :) I'm a trifle over five feet tall, and weigh a tad more than a hundred pounds. The rest of my family is universally unathletic; they're all quite mystified about where I got it from. So where did I get it from? Personal experimentation, I guess. I remember the perfect joy of Going Fast, when I finally learned to ride a bike; I remember discovering as a child that it was worthwhile to fight back both physically and verbally, and learn to win. riotgrrl sez: > i guess part of the reason i intimidate a a lot of men (and > women i suppose) is that i'm not dumb. Yep. This is sort of scary, isn't it? I do a lot of telephone tech support in my job, and some folks act really weird when they discover that the person who is going to fix their network software is a soprano. (The person who answers the phone and finds a tech is a man; the combination confuses a lot of people :) William Barr sez: > To digress, momentarily, it always saddens me when I see a > tall woman walking with a stooped head and shoulders. It's > a real shame when such women think that being tall is a > curse and they have to wear flats and destroy their posture Believe me, "wearing flats" is far likelier to save one's posture than to ruin it. Women who wear heels ruin the natural shape of their feet and legs, and there's no way to move in them with reasonable posture. (Ever see some poor soul trying to run through snow in high-heeled boots?) > Is your father a large influence in your pursuit of an > Amazon lifestyle or is there some spite for him in your > choice (i.e. proving him wrong)? Umm, neither. My dad is verbally aggressive, and was physically intimidating when I was small; I may have learned some rhetoric from him, but I like to think I've outgrown doing things for spite. > Use the above question, but substitute "mother"? My mom's a doctor; if nothing else, she certainly offered me a good role-model for a scientific/technical career. > [other role-models and their genders?] Hmm. My childhood heros included Jo March, Barbara McClintock, the Apollo astronauts and Albert Einstein. I don't think I cared much about gender in selecting roles to follow -- I didn't want to be like Einstein because he was male, but because he was brilliant and funny and eminently reasonable. > Were you raised to be independent and self-sufficient or > did your cries for help bring immediate assistance? I was raised to be *very* independent -- since both my parents worked, I was often left on my own from an early age. > Were you encouraged, ignored or discouraged in any efforts > to be a Tom-Boy? Ignored, for the most part, but generally accepted. Dennis sez: > To me an Amazon woman is one who is, and knows that she is, > superior to most if not all males, and knows how to use her > superiority. Not to me. I ain't in this to be "superior" to anybody else, regardless of their gender; I'm just being me as best I can. > [in the bedroom] She knows what power she has over the male > and does not hesitate to use it to her or for mutual > enjoyment. *snicker* I'm bisexual. Sometimes I sleep with other Amazons. It's fun to wrestle and/or play power-games in bed, but I don't think I'd enjoy it much if it were all that one-sided. I like people with some honest power of their own, not silly fluffy kittens to push around. Raptor sez: > Politically, I'm one of the few women, if not the only, in > my office who still identifies themself as feminist without > qualifying it in some fashion. *grin* I'm not in your office, but at least you're not the only one in the world. Glad to see you here! cheers, --vicka ************************************************************** Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:55:42 GMT From: nelson@berlioz.nsc.com (Taed Nelson) Subject: Re: The BEM Test (BSRI) [Editor's note: I've picked this up from soc.feminism, and forward it with Taed Nelson's permission. It's a list of references to articles about Sandra Bem's work on psychological androgyny and gender roles (see also issues 13 and 19 of Amazons International). Taed's offer of producing and mailing copies of the articles extends to readers of Amazons International as well.] As promised, I've looked up the references for the BSRI (Bem Sex Role Inventory). Probably the most informative one is: Sandra L. Bem, "Androgyny and Gender Schema Theory...", 1984 Nebraska Symposium on Motivation, edited by Teho B. Sonderegger. I suspect that this will be hard to get for most people, so I can copy it for anyone who wants it. It's a good paper. [I'll second that. -- Thomas] This paper focuses on Gender Schema theory (a subset of general Schema Theory, but most of the soc.feminism readers probably aren't familiar with that) and how the BSRI helps to gain evidence for it. Gender Schema theory says that we all have this built-in "schema" (look it up) for our adopted sex role, and that we perceive the world through it. [I'm afraid my understanding differs from Taed's here. As I understand it, it is the people who are sex-typed (i.e., those who are either masculine or feminine) who have a gender schema; while those who are not sex-typed (i.e., those who are either androgynous or undifferentiated (neuter)) do not have a gender schema, and thus they organize their perceptions according to other factors than sex and sex roles. Or, if they do have a gender schema, it is neither as dominating nor as all-encompassing as the gender schema of sex-typed people. -- Thomas] One of the more interesting experiments is where people who are sex-typed on the BSRI (i.e., they are either masculine or feminine) react to sex-typed adjectives flashed on a screen faster than non-sex-typed adjectives. Non-sex-typed people show no such difference. That is to say that a sex-typed reacts to the word "emotional" faster than they would to the word "thrifty" (I made up these examples). [Maybe a better example would be the words "butterfly", "refrigerator" and "pitbull". People who are feminine sex-typed would react faster to the word "butterfly" and they would remember it better than other people, while they would tend to forget or suppress the word "pitbull". Vice versa for people who are masculine sex-typed -- they would tend to react faster to the word "pitbull" and remember it better than other people, and they would tend to block out "butterfly" to a larger degree than non-sex-typed people. Non-sex-typed people don't display such gendered differences in selective attention. That is, in examining a large group of non-sex-typed people, there would be no difference in reaction time or in degree of retention of the three words. -- Thomas] Some easier-to-get papers would be: Bem, SL, "The Measurement of psychological androgyny", Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 42, 155-162. Bem, SL, "The theory and measurement of androgyny", Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 37, 1047-1054. Bem, SL, "The BSRI and Gender Schema Theory", Psychological Review, 88, 354-364. [There are actually 2 BSRI papers in this issue.] In addition, while on my Bem crusade, I would highly recommend the following two papers: Bem, SL, "Genital Knowledge and Gender Constancy", -- Oh no, this one is unpublished to my knowledge, but I got my copy of it about 5 or 6 years ago -- does anyone have the reference? I'll make copies for anyone interested. Basically, it shows that children (2-4 years old) who know about male and female genitals can "conserve" the sex of a picture -- even if the hair, clothes, etc, change. Children without this knowledge use these clues to determine the sex of a child -- if a boy puts on a dress, then "magically" that person is now a girl. Bem, Daryl J., "A Consumer's Guide to Dual-Career Marriages", ILR Report, Fall 1987. ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 01 Feb 93 17:53:57 EST From: Tony Dziepak Subject: Bio, women throwers & body size Bio: Tony Dziepak, economics graduate student at Virginia Tech. Hammer thrower, currently recovering from back injury and surgery. Was 182cm & 100kg (6'0" & 220 pounds), currently 90kg (198 lbs). Currently rehabing, passing the indoor season. Hope to get back into competition this spring. Currently helping to coach the younger throwers at Virginia Tech. We have a good crop of women throwers this year. My favorite events at track meets are, of course, the throwing events because I am a thrower. I like to watch both men's and women's events equally. I am impressed with a big, athletic woman that has good technique, and can really throw it out there. I am disappointed with the lack of television and newspaper exposure that Athletics (track & field) in general, throwing events specifically, and women's throwing events, more specifically, get in the US. It is a shame, because the lack of coverage really hurts American women's throwing. There are no role models for girls to aspire, and noone wants to throw in primary school. This may be partly because the Americans currently are not performing well against the rest of the world, but it's also an image thing. There is an image problem in the US about big, strong women. Women throwers have to overcome the stigma of not being the socially accepted size. This can affect their confidence, which in turn reflects on their performances. For example, a thrower may be hesitant to train with heavy weights (two of our throwers mentioned that their mothers told them to stop lifting weights because they are getting too big -- now that's real supportive). Also, this image thing hurts the postcollegiate thrower because it is difficult to get good publicity and sponsorship in these events. This image thing is not so much a problem in Europe. Big women (not fat, but just big, as opposed to frail) were preferred in Europe because they could do more work on the farm. I have seen current and former european throwers, and they don't look bad. They are big, but they are in good shape, not fat. Former throwers will lose about 10 to 40 pounds, get into recreational cycling to stay fit, and most are good-looking. In former East Germany, they had a great system of selecting and training athletes. Yes the officials secretly gave them anabolic steroids, but they also had great technique. My favorite was Martina Hellman (discus). She wasn't the biggest, but she had great form. I went to the US olympic trials last June in New Orleans, and was not very impressed with the women's throwing events. Now the US has some good-sized bodies out there (like Connie Price-Smith at 6'3" & 210 lbs), but their technique is lacking. Anyway, a great cover feature article about this whole problem of US women throwers is in the magazine "American Athletics" I think winter or spring 1992. If you are at a campus, see if you can look at it at the Track & field office in the athletic department. I think Pam Dukes is on the cover. I would be interested in hearing any comments about the above. Tony Dziepak hugo@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu P.S. In reference to the article in AI #16: I don't think that a woman will ever beat the men's WR in the marathon, or any established event that requires strength, speed, endurance, etc., however, the distribution of women's performances will continue to be more overlapped with the distribution of men's performances. ************************************************************** From: Thomas Gramstad Subject: The Oath of the Free Amazons I'll start this with a general recommendation of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. These fantasy novels explore some gender issues in a very illuminating way, they're fun and thrilling to read, and the psychological characterization and the cultural backgrounds are very vivid and convincing. For example, in one of the books, _Thendara House_, the focus is on two women, the one a Terran woman working for the Terran Intelligence who goes native and becomes a Darkovian Free Amazon, the other a Darkovian Free Amazon who marries a Terran and thus enters the Terran enclave and the Terran culture. And against that background many interesting issues are explored. The Oath of the Free Amazons will give some feel of the atmosphere. The Oath of the Free Amazons From this day forth, I renounce the right to marry, save as a freemate. No man shall bind me di catenas(*) and I will dwell in no man's household as a barragana.(*) I swear that I am prepared to defend myself by force if I am attacked by force, and that I shall turn to no man for protection. From this day forth I swear I shall never again be known by the name of any man, be he father, guardian, lover or husband, but simply and solely as the daughter of my mother. From this day forth I swear I will bear no child to any man save for my own pleasure and at my own time and choice; I will bear no child to any man for house or heritage, clan or inheritance, pride or posterity; I swear that I alone will determine rearing and fosterage of any child I bear, without regard to any man's place, position or pride. From this day forth I renounce allegiance to any family, clan, household, warden or liege lord, and take oath that I owe allegiance only to the laws of the land as a free citizen must; to the kingdom, the crown and the Gods. I shall appeal to no man as of right, for protection, support or suucor: but shall owe allegiance only to my oath-mother, to my sisters in the Guild and to my employer for the season of my employment. And I further swear that the members of the Guild of Free Amazons shall be to me, each and every one, as my mother, my sister or my daughter, born of one blood with me, and that no woman sealed by oath to the Guild shall appeal to me in vain. From this moment, I swear to obey all the laws of the Guild of Free Amazons and any lawful command of my oath-mother, the Guild members or my elected leader for the season of my employment. And if I betray any secret of the guild, or prove false to my oath, then I shall submit myself to the Guild-mothers for such discipline as they shall choose; and if I fail, then may every woman's hand turn against me, let them slay me like an animal and consign my body unburied to corruption and my soul to the mercy of the Goddess. (*) Words that describe women as chattel, slaves or property. ************************************************************** Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 16:20:14 +0100 From: solan@math.uio.no (Svein Olav Nyberg) Subject: Tyra, Daughter of the Sun [The following fiction story was written by a good friend of mine shortly after he got married. I must warn everybody that this is not a romantic story -- it is a very raw, pagan and even blood-dripping story with some dirty language thrown in as well. You have now been properly warned, and any continued reading is at your own risk. Enjoy! -- Ed.] "Get out of my way, little man!", she said, and bared her tyre-sized arms to show she meant business. The skinny creature looked blankly at her with his dog eyes ... "but why ..?" She brushed him off without further comment. She was used to that kind of stubborn weakness in men. There was a war to be fought. A war against those who did not want women to be more than men -- who wanted that a daughter could be sold by her father like any old merchandise. She faced the opposing army of rapists. She rose in all her might, and wielded her battle axe, which was large enough to cut an ox in half without sinking fully into it. The wimp looked worriedly at her, wondering what might become of him as she fought, so she tied him around her waist before charging on. Her axe cut through the band of incestuous uncles like were they butter, and her axe a warm knife. She could barely hold back her emotions at the beauty of it. But as she melted her way through the mass -- that part of the mass that did not flee by the sight of her -- she caught sight of the Nemesis himself: large as a bull and with an erection you could use for ploughing. As she reached him, she took him and lifted him over her head, her shoulder muscles bulging, and threw him to the ground. Before he could even react, she was on him like a panther and planted his cock well inside her own fleshy genital. She was hot. Wetness running from her cunt down onto his thighs where they evaporated from his struggling heat, she came over and over again. The bull screamed with pleasure. He was soon coming 5 .. 4 .. 3 .. 2 .. 1 .. -- she cut his head off with an axe, and let his body come in a pulsating orgasm. As she let the wimp lick her dry, she raised her head and arms to the sun "Thank, Goddess. Long have I ploughed your earth. Now you have ploughed mine. And as I have fertilized you with this sacrifice, let me be fertilized too." And the sun smiled down on her, seeing that all was good. ---- FIN ---- ********************************************************* * Amazons International: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Thomas Gramstad, editor * ********************************************************* "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries