Amazons International # 24 ************************** Contents: Jennifer: Bio William: The Playground: Innocence Lost Dennis: Intro & some ideas Kathryn: Bio Date of Transmission: 14.01.93 ************************************************************** From: IO11283@maine.bitnet (Jennifer Sanborn) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:11:06 EST Subject: Bio Considering the words of encouragement I've received from Bill Barr (See AI Bio in issue #23), I think I'd like to post a bio. I'm Jennifer Sanborn, 5'9" of muscular femininity. I'm not a bodybuilder -- I lift as a part of my other training (formerly for nordic skiing and ice hockey, now for speedskating). I am physically strong, but I am intellectually and emotionally strong, too. (I have to be -- otherwise how would I stay sane?) I'm presently working on a Masters of Science. I have long dark brown hair (after a childhood and adolescence of cropped hair and bobs), and I like to wear makeup when I go out, and in professional situations, though I've not been wearing much lately since I'm training a lot. After reading previous issues of AI, I am sure I fit parts of the Amazon profiles, though I can't say that the erotic combat (or combat at all) is really my style. I've wrestled some with boys I've dated, but never in a violent way. Just the occassional tickle fight :-) I am certainly competitive, both in sports, and in work situations, but I like to keep a healthy rein on it, to keep my perspective clear and my goals focused. Just my opinion (not so humble). I think a lot of my attitudes I inherited from my father and mother. The fact that Dad had daughters instead of sons enlightened him a great deal, and I was brought up to be something more than a cute ornament on some man's arm. I was brought up to think and do for myself, and to care for others, and to see that my own perspective was not the only one out there. Being big and powerful had its drawbacks -- being the Smart One in class all the time, assuming that since I was smart, I must not be pretty, etc. I have realized, as an adult, that I am attractive, and I must admit, being taken for a brainless bimbo once because I was looking hot in a black outfit was definitely a shocker! Wow! Full circle? Or to amaze people that a woman who played hockey had a 3.8 GPA? Why is this so strange to people? Don't people see what potential is wasted by buying into weakness and stereotypes? Occasionally I think of the words above the doors of the dorm I lived in at prep school (male: female ratio 2:1, and I lived in the all girls dorm). I think these have become one of my favorite personal mottos: Over door on one side of the building: "Nothing so strong as gentleness" Over the facing door: "Nothing so gentle as strength" Reading these every day as I went to and from meals, classes, and athletics, I knew that my inner powerful Amazon self is the one I will forever be happiest in -- my strong mind, body and spirit are loved by those who really matter, for those who befriend me are valuable and special, though they be few. I don't expect any potential SO to be anything other than he really wants and desires to be, and in turn, I expect to be true to myself while in a monogamous relationship as much as I am while single. Enough oration -- I'm glad to be a part of the group. Thanks for letting me share. -- Jennifer Sanborn ************************************************************** From: wbarr@bma.jeslacs.wimsey.bc.ca (William Barr) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 00:06:26 PST Subject: The Playground: Innocence Lost In issue # 23, I wrote a short story about a particularly influential Amazon I revered in my childhood. When I wrote that story, I touched on a number of issues that really made me think about particular events in my childhood. One point that I made, and that Thomas has mentioned before, was how the sex roles are rigidly defined in the playground. Becoming more curious, and since I live across the street from a small park with a public playground, I went over to observe how we learned this behaviour. I had a fairly decent sample to observe. There were 4 mothers and 1 father playing with children in the park. There were 7 children (4 girls and 3 boys) between the ages of 3 to 6 years. For reasons that I will explain later, I removed the father and his daughter from the sample. The women sat on benches and conversed while keeping an eye on the children. The children played on the equipment and in the sand pit essentially unattended. I noticed, over time, that the boys were given far less attention and much more freedom to move/explore. This was despite the fact that besides the obvious physiological differences, all the children were roughly at the same stage of physical development and were equivalent. All in all, children are pretty resilient, flexible, without fear and rather indestructible. What I saw was recognition of this fact but, only that it pertained to boys. The girls were given far more "attention" and "help", whether they needed it or not. The girls were also much more eager to cry when frustrated or hurt and they were much more likely to ask for help. When playing with each other, the children showed no obvious signs of discriminating, sexually, amongst themselves. They all took turns on the slide, the swings, etc. with no intervention from the adults. Even though the boys were more inclined to be adventurous, they waited for the girls to have a turn. On the other hand, the father actually _played_ with his daughter. Indeed, I had a difficult time telling which one was the kid and which one was having more fun. They played a game of catch, they wrestled, he helped her climb a tree and coached her on the playground equipment. If she hesitated, he encouraged her to take the next step. He also let her take her lumps with no display of sympathy. (This was not well looked upon by the women.) In one particular little drama, the girl's jacket became caught at the top of the slide. She called for help, none of which was forthcoming. Then she cried. Again, the women looked on, disapprovingly. Her father told her that since she got herself into that mess, she would have to get herself out. She stopped crying, instantly. In a moment, she freed her jacket, she kicked the slide (Bad slide!) and slid down it. This was in sharp contrast to the assistance the mothers rushed to give when a child was in "distress". I had seen enough for one day. While what I saw answers a few questions, it raises even more. Perhaps a few could be debated and some contributions from the Amazons out there would give much more insight. Is your father a large influence in your pursuit of an Amazon lifestyle or is there some spite for him in your choice (i.e. proving him wrong)? Use the above question, but substitute "mother"? Did your father, or any other male role-model have any influence in your lifestyle choice? Again, substitute "mother" and "female"? Were you raised to be independent and self-sufficient or did your cries for help bring immediate assistance? Did your mother actively play with you, like the father in the park, or did she have a more passive role? Were you encouraged, ignored or discouraged in any efforts to be a Tom-Boy? Instead of any more commentary on my behalf, I think much more can be discovered from the answers women could provide. Having seen what I did, the other day, all I can say is that if I ever have a daughter, I know how I will raise her. :) -- William Barr Internet: wbarr@bma.jeslacs.wimsey.bc.ca ************************************************************** From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 03:41:59 CST Subject: Intro and ideas Hello Amazons International! I have just read through several prior issues, and decided instead of posting a bio to just briefly introduce myself and give you a couple of my ideas on several topics I read. First, as you all probably guessed by now, I'm a male, who is both an EX crossdresser, and bodybuilder. Both are in my past and I didn't do both at the same time as my physical build was considerably different in both periods of my life. Shortly after leaving high school I lived with a dominant woman who intruduced me into crossdressing. At that time I was about 6'4" tall and my weight was 135 lbs. Several years after that relationship broke off I dated another woman who introduced me to bodybuilding, and later I went into weight lifting. At age 26 my 6'4" frame was carrying 260 lbs with a 32 inch waist. Since then I have had several injuries that have caused me to give up training on a serious basis, and my weight has dropped to just over 200 lbs, and my waist has enlarged. I probable should try some form of arobics now. Well, the issue of Amazons and femininity is the one that really bothers me. It seems that people think that a woman who goes into bodybuilding will automatically lose her femininity. This I think is almost completely false. Just because a woman is larger than average does not mean she is any less feminine. Where the lack of femininity comes is usually when they reduce their body fat content to the point that if they were not wearing something covering their breasts you could not tell the difference between their breast and a young man's. This rippedness which is so important in a bodybuilding competition is the only thing that effects the femininity of their appearance, as well as being a questionable health issue. Well, again this is my view, but the larger a woman is and still retains a female shape, the more beautiful she is. Next comes the issue of what is an Amazon? Well, in my mind a majority of female weight lifters are not. Being an Amazon is not a mere issue of being muscular. If I had to define it in physical size alone I would have to say it would be a woman that was tall (over 6') and well shaped probably yielding a D or larger cup size. However, I don't believe that physical looks is as much an issue as the mental state. To me an Amazon woman is one who is, and knows that she is, superior to most if not all males, and knows how to use her superiority. She is self confident, as well as knowledgable about her likes and dislikes. She is bold and assertive enough to make her desires known and is not willing to compromise them. On a date she is the one who tells you where she wants to go, and what she wants to do beforehand. In the bedroom she is the one who determines what will happen, and when, if at all. She knows what power she has over the male and does not hesitate to use it to her or for mutual enjoyment. A woman of this nature does not have to be tall or large (the woman I know who most closely meets this description was only 5'4" at about 120 lbs), but she needs to have that strong will. Well, these are just a couple of my views which I'm sure many of you will disagree with, so don't hesitate in flaming me if you do. -- Dennis [I don't mind direct, uncompromising or even confrontational language, but let us keep flames to private mail. -- Editor] ************************************************************** From: raptor@grebyn.com (Kathryn Neel) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 17:03:01 -0500 Subject: Bio I tend to be considered, hummmmm, overwelming by some of the people that cross paths with me either physically, intellectually, or politically. Physically I'm taller then most people, though at 5'10" I'm the shortest person in my family (my Mom is 6ft and so is my sister). I also have spent my child and adult life involved in athletics (I have varsity letters in half a dozen sports and as an adult have belts in three different martial art forms). So I don't tend to cower when faced with an opponent --- either on or off the mat. From an intellectual/academic standpoint I am presently a systems analyst for EDS (formerly a Perot company, now GM owned) with a B.A. in Psychobiology and a M.S. in Neurobiology ---- yeah, I know I've wandered far a field; but I'm not happy in only one intellectual pursuit. I spent 5 years as a Research Biologist before turning into a computer type. Politically, I'm one of the few women, if not the only, in my office who still identifies themself as feminist without qualifying it in some fashion. Women of power were present in my growing up years and I continue to value the input of anyone (male or female) who isn't afraid to be themselves --- I guess that's my definition of an Amazon. So how do you join this club/group ---- do you swear an oath (like the Amazons of the Darkover novels) or sign a piece of paper, or what? Let me know. -- Raptor [I think I'll type in that oath for the next issue. While not a requirement, it's an interesting point of reference. For those who are unfamiliar with it, the reference is to Marion Zimmer Bradley's Amazon fiction novels, widely and easily available in the fantasy & science fiction section of book-stores. She's also the editor of the _Sword and Sorceress_ short-story anthologies, being published once a year (it's 8 of them by now I think). Basically I add anyone who express an interest in reading Amazons International, assuming that they share or sympathize with the values and goals of A.I. (or at least are interested in learning about them), practicing the 'innocent until proven guilty' principle. -- Editor] ********************************************************* * Amazons International: thomas@smaug.uio.no * * Thomas Gramstad, editor * ********************************************************* "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries