Amazons International # 6 ------------------------- Topics: Stormwind: Re: Amazon newsgroup also? Thomas: Hate-mail: Are we latent homosexuals or brainwashed? D! : Re: newsgroup? Thomas: Some addresses ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 May 91 10:22:34 PDT From: amazon@inferno.esd.sgi.com (Stormwind) Subject: Re: Amazon newsgroup also? From: Thomas Subject: Amazon newsgroup also? Some of you have asked me about the possibilities for creating an amazon newsgroup also, in addition to the mailing list. I see some positive aspects and some problems about this. On the negative side, at least in my opinion, is that it would not be private, and it would probably be a lot of flame-fests there, at least if the group was unmoderated. indeed. there are still a large number of backwards males out there who think the word "woman" is synonomous with "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen". ("soc.amazons" could be moderated; "alt.amazons" probably couldn't be moderated, I believe that's against the ordinary net policies.) the alt heirarchy is equivalent to the chaos heirarchy...you can create anything you want, but you cannot control its existance or quality. I believe it would be difficult to get enough votes for soc.amazons -- there would probably be many no-votes; this is actually a "controversial" issue (even with the moderate PR I've done for this list, I've received some hate-mail). i'm curious: was the hate mail from women or men, and was there any prevalence of a particular ethnic background that disliked the concept? (for example, exposure to pakistani culture through dinner with a pakistani couple tells me that most pakistani people would probably *hate* my aggressive way of approaching life). what was the general nature of the bitch that people have with the concept? The mailing list and a newsgroup should be and would be entirely separate; it's like a private party with some friends vs. a night in a noisy night club. The mailing list is more private in nature, and one can be personal t/here without feeling like an exhibitionist. this is very much like the schism between alt.pagan and the solitaire mailing list. due to a few overly vocal idiots who claim to be the ultimate authority on everything, most of the more usefull contributors to alt.pagan have removed themselves to the solitaire mailing list instead. stormwind hell's amazon --------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Subject: reply about the hate-mail: are we latent homosexuals? > what was the general nature of the bitch people have with the concept? One, a male, made a sarcastic comment because he had to read about Amazons on the mail-men mailing list. This didn't merit a reply. The other one puzzled me. I sent information about this list to somebody who sounded like an amazon. It turned out that he was a transsexual -- a male going female. The Amazon concept was very provoking and threatening to this person; he accused me and all other males who like Amazons of being latent homosexuals who "try to find a socially acceptable outlet for our homoerotic longings". And the idea that some women *want* to be Amazons was totally alien and incomprehensible to him; he thought that such women were simply manipulated and brainwashed by the before mentioned latent homosexuals. I found this view, and the ardor with which he held it very strange; however, maybe it becomes understandable in a way if one considers that he is a male who wants to take surgery to become a female -- a very feminine female: If the difference between males and females is not so great, if females are not so feminine, then maybe his problems won't be solved by a sex reverse surgery. Maybe such a thought or hunch was the source of his fear. - Thomas -------------- Date: Thu, 16 May 91 06:46:12 PDT From: d_carroll@tle.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: soc.amazon I don't think a newsgroup is a good idea. For one thing, newsgroups inevitably have a high noise:signal ratio. I wouldn't be able to read it - I barely have time to keep up with the mailing lists I'm on and one newsgroup I read. But, more importantly, I'm sure I wouldn't like the net result. So far (although there hasn't been much to judge on) this list has remained amazingly free of degrading and objectifing comments. That's good. I am afraid a newsgroup, which any testosterone-laden horny socially-ill- equipped college sophomore can read, wouldn't keep up such standards of good taste. I dread to see an entire newsgroup devote to objectifying women and I'm afraid that is what soc.amazon would turn in to. So far the tone has been very respectful - let's keep it that way. D! -- [A moderated newsgroup need not be that bad -- soc.feminism works quite well, from what I've seen of it. -- Thomas] -------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Subject: Some addresses This is a list of addresses to some groups that I know from personal experience: (1) AM-FEM Company P.O.Box 93 Cooper Station New York, NY 10003 AM-FEM produces a directory which gives you the opportunity to read about, correspond with, compete against female wrestlers, boxers, arm wrestlers, mud wrestlers, bodybuilders etc. It is a reference book with lots of personal ads, membership clubs, publication addresses etc. The directory costs $ 30 within the US (free flyer about it available). I ordered my copy recently, and got it last week, and I'm thoroughly impressed. This is going to change my life! (2) The Valkyries Vixen Hill Farm, RD 2 Phoenixville PA 19460 A group of female bodybuilders that produce T-shirts, sweaters, posters etc with motives of strongwomen. Some of their mottos: "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" "Women's bodybuilding is one of the most revolutionary movements in the history of womankind, as it redefines what a woman is and can be. Right now it's still a frontier. But it's setting standards for what women will be tomorrow." (3) Video Views P.O.Box 185 East Petersburg PA 17520 and Premier Productions P.O.Box 453 Willow Street PA 17584 These two companies cooperate, and offer videos with competive bodybuilders, skilled wrestlers, dancers, gymnasts etc. Products include real mat wrestling action (both collegiate/freestyle and pro style) in mixed and female vs female formats, "apartment house action" featuring wrestling women in fantasy tapes, catfights, boxing, arm-wrestling and other varieties on this theme. Send $ 10 to receive all flyers (deductible from first order). These are very good videos. (4) Women's Physique Publication P.O.Box 443 Ho Ho Kus, NJ 07423 Videos, photo sets and A magazine (two, actually) featuring female bodybuilders: photos, interviews, competition coverage etc. Also videos and photosets. The videos contain posing routines, work-outs and interviews. You may also want to check out this: (5) Bare Strength Productions P.O.Box 1058 Carmel, New York 10512 ----------------------------------------------------------- Amazons International: thomasg@ulrik.uio.no Thomas Gramstad, moderator ----------------------------------------------------------- "A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries